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Is directional more fun than door in LW?

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Matteo V
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Re: Is directional more fun than door in LW?

Postby Matteo V » Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:14 am

Wind quality is very important to your decision.

Clean winds (can be clean winds on inland lakes too) favor building apparent wind with speed. Thus the large fins of a sector can be exploited to your benefit by just getting up to speed and staying there. Only clean winds allow this.

Dirty winds at less than ideal kiting venues, can pose a problem to delivering speed and constant pressure to large fins on surfboards. TT's are better at instant edging and flattening when required in these conditions. So if your venue has turbulent winds, go TT.

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Re: Is directional more fun than door in LW?

Postby Janus » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:38 am

Like Jakemoore wrote: don't forget the skims, really fun.

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Re: Is directional more fun than door in LW?

Postby Skywalker7 » Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:51 am

Both board makes sense. I am ca 96 kg and from the Doors the 160x45 cm Doors are the best for me, Flydoor L is a very good one or the Spleene 159 is also. You can jump a lot on them and actually I used to jump tons of backroll and front rolls transitions with kiteloops (downloops) with 15 or 18m kites and those boards help you to progress a lot and are starting in much lighter winds than a regular 138 twintip. I also rode the XL Doors both from Flysurfer and Spleene too and they are kind of too big to enjoy jumping and landing is harder and they start only a knot earlier or maybe only a half knot earlier than the 160x45 sizes so I dont think they makes sense unless you are beginer or above 100 kg. So what I like to use when there is flat water and very light wind is a directional freerace board. They kind of start in the same wind as the XL door just roughly has 1.5-2 times of the riding speed than on an XL door so they are much more fun. I rode also the Sector but actually a Flysurfer Razor is way easier to ride, easier to transport and less likely to damage so if you can put your hands on one then go for it. I am also riding a Newind freerace board which is actually just a freeride board and it is better in a choppy water as it is more like a surf board and actually it is closer to North Nugget in riding feel than to a Razor or the Sector.

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Re: Is directional more fun than door in LW?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:17 am

Jukka wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:32 pm
Good points everyone, thanks!
I do have the water depth for the sector, but no waves for extra fun.

Just trying to keep the ground is where the fun ends for me at the moment with my non-door but large twintip. So Sector might add more fun to it with better speed and upwind angles so giving more room to play around. But so could a big door :) .
I'm not looking for light wind big air and it's definitely not all about jumping. Carving related things are already pointing towards fun.
dylan* wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:02 pm
...but you cant really do anything on a sector except ride back and forth in a straight line
...this is a demotivational thought regarding the Sector.

...but you cant really do anything on a sector except ride back and forth in a straight line

Above is SO not true :wink:

Before foiling, I rode many freerace/freeride raceboard types like the Sector and similar, when ligther wind.

They can jump higher/better than a door - I dont understand those writing "no jumps" ?
You can make aerial transitions, rotations, even play with aerial jibes - besides carving which is why I have ditched the door I once had - it was way too boring and felt wrong...

Only if loads of seaweed and only a few inches of water depth - it can be the only tool to use :roll:

I loved riding "Sectors" because they have a size and low weight so jumping and some light wind freestyle is great, besides you are getting way more jumps and carving/jibing/tacking fun because of the good upwind abilities also.
Whereas the door was boring and demotivational for me - so few options on these...

Not in doubt at all, the directional wins hands down IMO - I honestly think those preferring doors are beginners, or those who can not ride directionals, or those not needing more fun and challenges, or those with extremely low water and seaweed :naughty:

8) Peter

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Re: Is directional more fun than door in LW?

Postby Matteo V » Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:30 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:17 am
...but you cant really do anything on a sector except ride back and forth in a straight line

Above is SO not true :wink:
Peter is right about this part because of the physics. In clean winds, a freerace board will have more speed and thus generate more apparent wind. Think of it as half (more like .1) of a hydrofoil. The fin (a vertical foil) is much more efficient at generating lift without as much drag (lift is sideways push in the case of a fin) for your upwind tack. This also holds true for holding against a kite deep in the window when going slightly downwind for max speed. So long as the wind is steady, more speed = more apparent wind = more potential for jumping.

In dirty winds where kite power is undesirably variable, the instant capability of a TT to edge or flatten without much regard for loading or maintaining fin load, is an advantage over a loaded fin on a surfboard.

Want more evidence? Why were there no TT raceboards that could compete with directional raceboards? And, why is a centerboard on a big TT so advantageous to getting upwind? - a fin (actually a foil) is the most efficient, with respect to drag, method of getting upwind and building speed.

But the OP's question is condition specific. Fins need constant power to work efficiently, and that means steady wind.

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Re: Is directional more fun than door in LW?

Postby Jukka » Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:46 pm

Good points everyone, thanks again :thumb: .

There it is now, Sector 60.
Just bought it and had first ride with hardly any wind. Had to keep working the 17 m kite just to keep it in air while standing in water.
Still managed to go around some. Oh my this thing can go upwind in low wind :o .

Image

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Re: Is directional more fun than door in LW?

Postby norcom » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:04 pm

Jukka wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:46 pm
Good points everyone, thanks again :thumb: .

There it is now, Sector 60.
Just bought it and had first ride with hardly any wind. Had to keep working the 17 m kite just to keep it in air while standing in water.
Still managed to go around some. Oh my this thing can go upwind in low wind :o .

Image
Nice! You should try changing the rear straps to a one strap only. Attach the single trap to the middle screw hole and one of the fin bolts. Makes Light winds a little easier as you don't need to ride off the fin constantly. Little more fun to carve and a surfy feeling. But to each their own.

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Re: Is directional more fun than door in LW?

Postby Jukka » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:12 pm

norcom wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:04 pm
Nice! You should try changing the rear straps to a one strap only. Attach the single trap to the middle screw hole and one of the fin bolts. Makes Light winds a little easier as you don't need to ride off the fin constantly. Little more fun to carve and a surfy feeling. But to each their own.
Good tip, I'll try that. This was now right off the shop with default settings.
Sometimes I actually ended up placing rear foot in front ot the rear straps to keep it more level and weight front. But this was just the first try with mostly too little wind even for this...

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Re: Is directional more fun than door in LW?

Postby grigorib » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:16 pm

Jukka wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:09 pm
I am looking for a non-foil board solution for light wind days.
At the moment my options are Airust Sector 60 or some XL door.

I have read many people writing directionals are more fun in light wind compared to doors.
What is it that makes it more fun?
I would think a door with 17m kite would make the occasional jump possible, and thus more fun, so what am I missing here?
At 200 lbs. I can jump, do backrolls, frontrolls, any of my fun transitions with my 170x50 Flydoor5 XL. Got it riding in 6-7 knots under 15m Turbine with 37m lines. Rode 15m+170x50cm combination when no one else around could ride anything they had including 17m/19m Contras, 17m Zephyr/Turbine... A smaller kite with a huge board is a way to do it, not vice versa

Advantages of a door is that while you're trying to keep an eye on your kite, looping and figure-eight to prevent it from falling out of the skies, you're still strapped in the board and need to pay zero attention to the board, unlike strapless directional/foil, or even strapped one after screwing up a transition. In ultimate LW there's no attention left for the board, you gotta fly the kite.

Also I haven't seen a directional kitesurfboard which would be riding in ultimate LW as well as a huge door, besides of course a huge hydrofoil wing. Probably a formula board would do better, but those are extinct and you won't be able to ride it in shallows nor have as much fun on it as with a door

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Re: Is directional more fun than door in LW?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:53 pm

Jukka wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:12 pm
norcom wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:04 pm
Nice! You should try changing the rear straps to a one strap only. Attach the single trap to the middle screw hole and one of the fin bolts. Makes Light winds a little easier as you don't need to ride off the fin constantly. Little more fun to carve and a surfy feeling. But to each their own.
Good tip, I'll try that. This was now right off the shop with default settings.
Sometimes I actually ended up placing rear foot in front ot the rear straps to keep it more level and weight front. But this was just the first try with mostly too little wind even for this...

Nice to see!

It is okay to stand in front of the strap yes - but when you get "dialed in" you will find that pumping the board onto a plane and pushing the fins will make you able to ride in really low wind and blast through lulls and gusty winds - this is where a freerace board like this excel, and it can ride in chop or waves too (unlike a door) so much more versatile.
A freerace board is not a waveboard (they dont start early like doors), but a raceboard tuned "down" a bit with smaller fins and not as wide - so way easier and pleasant to ride, carves just great, and goes upwind like crazy - for the non racer it feels (and is) fast upwind.

Like Norcom says, put one rear strap on instead, if you want to jump and do freestyle - for me at least it works so much better :D

Great to see you act fast, buy and go out and ride - that is how it is done, respect :thumb:

Enjoy your new weapon for low wind days - you are in for some awesome experiences now in terms of jumping and going bloody fast in super low winds :naughty:

Also, if far out and the wind dies, you got volume to sit on the board when drifting ashore, not to be underestimated.

8) Peter
Last edited by Peter_Frank on Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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