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Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

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PullStrings
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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby PullStrings » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:22 pm

TomW wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:05 pm
grigorib wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:54 pm
PullStrings wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:53 pm
...Why do people insist on being on a very unpopular kite...only 4 % worldwide use them
because foils:
- kick ass staying in the air in the lightest of the winds and you need to be able to race in 3 m/s
- they go upwind like mad (but also high AR is a big factor in that too)
- they don't leave you pumping and messing with hardened tubes and valves with bare fingers in the crispy frosty winter air
- have awesome hangtime, even if you don't jump the highest on them
- they're compact for travel
- they look beautiful and mesmerizing
- in ideal launch/landing conditions and in steady winds they're pleasure to ride even for hardcore LEI rider

Like a 60's sport car or 70's muscle car - they're not the safest, they require more maintenance, you wouldn't take them into iffy conditions, they are expensive but boy, they're beautiful, they make you feel good and you win some competitions with them

And they never flap around and luff. they are totally smooth and even in power delivery. For me this is the only reason I enjoy them more than LEI. Period.
If someone makes a lightweight LEI that can hang in the air in 6-7 knots and not flap when depowered, i´d be very interested.
To hang in 6-7 kn LEI does not need to be extra lightweight but of great design...the sizes have to be large...delta...5 struts for no flapping when full depowered in 18-20 knots
Of course the LEI mono flaps it has only one strut

grigorib
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Posts: 843
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; OBX; SPI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Moses 71cm/91cm/42” masts 590/633 wings, Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: MHL Lift 2013, Slingshot Coupe 6'
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby grigorib » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:50 pm

TomW wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:05 pm
grigorib wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:54 pm
PullStrings wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:53 pm
...Why do people insist on being on a very unpopular kite...only 4 % worldwide use them
because foils:
- kick ass staying in the air in the lightest of the winds and you need to be able to race in 3 m/s
- they go upwind like mad (but also high AR is a big factor in that too)
- they don't leave you pumping and messing with hardened tubes and valves with bare fingers in the crispy frosty winter air
- have awesome hangtime, even if you don't jump the highest on them
- they're compact for travel
- they look beautiful and mesmerizing
- in ideal launch/landing conditions and in steady winds they're pleasure to ride even for hardcore LEI rider

Like a 60's sport car or 70's muscle car - they're not the safest, they require more maintenance, you wouldn't take them into iffy conditions, they are expensive but boy, they're beautiful, they make you feel good and you win some competitions with them

And they never flap around and luff. they are totally smooth and even in power delivery. For me this is the only reason I enjoy them more than LEI. Period.
If someone makes a lightweight LEI that can hang in the air in 6-7 knots and not flap when depowered, i´d be very interested.
If you ever get your hands on 12m Rally 2012 (3 struts) I suggest you take it for a ride. 14m might be too big to steer but I think if you're under 200 lbs both will get you riding in 7 knots.

kiterocky
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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby kiterocky » Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:08 pm

No problem to go with strutless 17 in 5 6 kt...rrd emotion ...Just in case old version or new...same...and float in the water for self rescue...not a pain in the ass of the rescue boat...they have better thingh to do than rescue foil hi performance kite of the "special " 4% people....

grigorib
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Posts: 843
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
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Local Beach: Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; OBX; SPI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Moses 71cm/91cm/42” masts 590/633 wings, Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: MHL Lift 2013, Slingshot Coupe 6'
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby grigorib » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:23 pm

kiterocky wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:08 pm
No problem to go with strutless 17 in 5 6 kt...rrd emotion ...Just in case old version or new...same...and float in the water for self rescue...not a pain in the ass of the rescue boat...they have better thingh to do than rescue foil hi performance kite of the "special " 4% people....
I think for either foil or LEI the exploration of ultimate lightwind assumes acceptance of swim-ins. I didn't enjoy strutless LEIs as much as I did enjoy 15m Sonic but I'm sure drying the wet strutless is way more easier :)

I should give a try to foil with Peak too - should be a cool memory to make

sixty6
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:46 am
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Local Beach: Wissant
Favorite Beaches: Wissant plage
Style: bigair, oldachool, wave
Gear: Flysurfer Psycho4
6-19sqm
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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby sixty6 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:26 am

Some facts:

1. Most foil kites launch much earlier from the water.my old psycho 4 normal fabric start from 6 knots.

2. I jump almost always much! Higher than tubekites

3. Wind srrenghth and deep pressure with wind decreases in eorope.
I use more and more my big ones from 12 - 19 sqm.19sqm in 50% of all days.

4. The weight of air inside a foil does not have the impact for relaunch as described from Groesel. Because the air inside has the same density and gravity as the surrounding air.
During summer time the air temperature inside is slightly higher.this may result rather in a little bit more uplift...

The only big disadvantage of foil kites is that - until now - the models are restricted rather to power oriented models.e.g. there are no wave kfoils... But they will come!
The system has a lot of advantages for many kiters. Not for all, but it has the potential to become a mass product...
Tryout the latest baby from flysurfer - the soul.
An easy going performance freerider.

In lifhtwind unbeatable compared to a tube.
No pumping, less atuff at beach.
Super light.
Relaunch from 6 knots without any problem an d unbelievable jump high ...

For the majority of kiters this one could be the answer of having muxh more dun from 8-15knots... which is in lot of places the majority of consitions...

foilholio
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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby foilholio » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:42 am

Wave foil viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2394428.

You can surf well with most large foils.

sixty6
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Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:46 am
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Local Beach: Wissant
Favorite Beaches: Wissant plage
Style: bigair, oldachool, wave
Gear: Flysurfer Psycho4
6-19sqm
Brand Affiliation: None!

Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby sixty6 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:50 am

you are right, there is indeed one wave foil kite from concept air which I heared it works very well.
But only sizes up to 6 sqm are available -sufficiently for foil-boarding, but a little bit small for use with directionals at most days...
Maybe concept air will develop bigger sizes in future???

However with my FS psycho4 10sqm in deluxe fabric Waveriding works quite good because it drifts perfectly with only 2 kg. And turns much narrower than race foil - but of course not as narrow as a pure Wavekite.
But unfortunately production was stopped some years before.

foilholio
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Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby foilholio » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:08 pm

We can only hope Flysurfer releases a new Psycho... one day.

sixty6
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Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:46 am
Kiting since: 12
Local Beach: Wissant
Favorite Beaches: Wissant plage
Style: bigair, oldachool, wave
Gear: Flysurfer Psycho4
6-19sqm
Brand Affiliation: None!

Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby sixty6 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:19 pm

foilholio wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:08 pm
We can only hope Flysurfer releases a new Psycho... one day.
:clap: :clap: :clap:

grigorib
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Posts: 843
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; OBX; SPI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Moses 71cm/91cm/42” masts 590/633 wings, Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: MHL Lift 2013, Slingshot Coupe 6'
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Tube vs Softkite - an epic battle?

Postby grigorib » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:46 pm

sixty6 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:50 am
you are right, there is indeed one wave foil kite from concept air which I heared it works very well.
But only sizes up to 6 sqm are available -sufficiently for foil-boarding, but a little bit small for use with directionals at most days...
Maybe concept air will develop bigger sizes in future???

However with my FS psycho4 10sqm in deluxe fabric Waveriding works quite good because it drifts perfectly with only 2 kg. And turns much narrower than race foil - but of course not as narrow as a pure Wavekite.
But unfortunately production was stopped some years before.
You should try the speed4 in deluxe. Not the Lotus Speed4 made by stencils of Speed4 but the first Speed4 series one which is more of Psycho like extension. They only made 8m/10m kites and sizes in both standard/deluxe fabrics. A/B/Z rows only, no jetflaps, no zippers, battens on the LE - really awesome wing


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