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lightwind surfboard

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foilholio
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Re: lightwind surfboard

Postby foilholio » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:30 am

Skims are awesome in waves :-) You still need a big one for light wind.

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Re: lightwind surfboard

Postby iLog » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:28 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:54 pm
iLog wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:09 pm
I wanna start with the directional and I am fairly new to kiteboarding.

So you have some TT experience? That is what I will assume.


The best reason to dedicate some time to learning a surfboard is that you are no longer "happy" with the way a TT feels. Or, you just want to try a surfboard.

My suggestion is that you don't get off the TT to quickly. TT's are great at doing lots of things that directional's don't do well. You should learn those things on a TT and later move on and try to apply those skills on the different platform of the surfboard.


Here are some things you need to know:

1. In the beginning, it will be difficult to go between a TT and surfboard. The primary hurtle to overcome is changing your weight distribution. You ride a TT with your weight back pressuring the tail, but you ride a surfboard more evenly, though sometimes with your weight more forward.

2. In my experience, about 80% of kiters understand that they were lied to about a surfboard being better at light wind than a LW TT. Though you can make a LW surfboard go upwind better with some time and skill, it is not "plug and play" like TT's are. You won't see light wind benefits to a surfboard until after you have mastered the jibe. This is for many different reasons, but the primary ones are,
(a) surfboards have a more rounded outline and rounded rails made for smooth turns, not getting upwind when edged - so it is difficult to edge them upwind
(b) surfboards have lots of fin area compared to a TT, but getting upwind on fins requires flow (speed) over those fins as they are vertical foils - whereas a TT has the capability to set a hard edge to resist downwind pull instantly, without speed.
(c) steady wind is essential to a surfboard going upwind, turbulent wind favors a TT getting upwind for the reasons in (b)
(d) the volume of a surfboard is of no help above about 3mph where planning (plowing) forces take over from displacement forces - this is why LW TT's have no additional volume added (for the sake of adding volume) to them.
(e) the jibe loses upwind gains of a short tack on a surfboard, vs a simple transition on a TT. So shorter tacks (smaller lake, or not going so far out in the ocean) favor a TT.

3. Surfboards can be fun even if you cannot jibe. If you get hooked on the power of the fins (with speed), and the control over the tail, you may enjoy them without being able to turn the board around. But go into it understanding that the jibe takes lots of work to get - ESPECIALLY IN DIRTY WIND LOCATIONS!!! Don't expect to jibe right away. The kitesurfboard jibe is not nearly as difficult as a windsurfing jibe, but it will take some time and many dedicated sessions just to learn how to turn around. Oh, and you will be going downwind on that surfboard when learning to jibe. Durring that same time, you could be having a good session on a TT.


Just a disclaimer - I ride directionals exclusively because I like the feel. I sold all of my TT's a few years back. For me it was a feel thing. Originally I was just going to go back to windsurfing instead of continuing with kiteboarding. But when I finally got on a GOOD/SLASHY/POPY/FUN kitesurfboard, I was hooked and I don't windsurf much anymore. To me, kitesurfing was what windsurfing was always trying to be, but the high volume requirements of windsurfing held it back. In kitesurfing, there are no volume requirements.
thanks for the advice
I'll stick with TT for now but I'll rent a surfboard just to try it out for now.

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Re: lightwind surfboard

Postby Matteo V » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:06 am

petato2 wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:02 am
Hi Ilog,

I am 85 kg, and ride only directionals since years.

Currently own two, a thinner 6.0 for the good wind days, and a shorter and wide 5,4 for the light ones.

I have tried different boards, not only surfboards but also skims. Recomend you to try a skim, is a complete different feeling and really fun. They work great in light winds because they are really flat.
And,

petato2 wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:02 am
For light wind days I am now riding a RRd Pop, short 5,4, really wide, four find, and with tones of volumme (+35?). It really works great for me in light winds. It keeps you going and with a bit of technic it goes upwind amazing. Also great to practice new moves.

I hope it helped.
So a for light wind, a low volume skimboard works, and a high volume surfboard works?

Most kiters have figured out that volume is not important, but shape/surface area is. Volume is only important for a kitesurfboard if you are attempting to use a surfboard made for prone surfing. While you do not need the volume, high volume surfboards are made with wide footprints that makes them work in light winds. Any high volume ( made for prone surfing) surfboard can have the top cut off to reduce it's volume to half, and still have the same kiting performance curve. Volume is only important in prone surfing.

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Re: lightwind surfboard

Postby petato2 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:49 am

Both flat rocker and volumme works for low wind.

Thats why skims work, they may not hace such a big surface but are flat. Similar to what happens with the shinnster, It is not super big but flat and also works great in light wind having really low volumme (twintip construction)

I checked yesterday my surfboard, is short 5,4, os wide, and with tons if volumme (39 lts) and yes It does work great for light wind.

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Re: lightwind surfboard

Postby Matteo V » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:53 am

petato2 wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:49 am
Both flat rocker and volumme works for low wind.

Thats why skims work, they may not hace such a big surface but are flat. Similar to what happens with the shinnster, It is not super big but flat and also works great in light wind having really low volumme (twintip construction)

I checked yesterday my surfboard, is short 5,4, os wide, and with tons if volumme (39 lts) and yes It does work great for light wind.

Petato2,

The 5'-4" board is great at light winds because of the planing surface area/shape, not the volume.

Volume does not matter to a kiter. The only exception was this video, which shows a kiter stopping unnecessarily, then trying to get going again.

https://youtu.be/Gl4aslGB1So

I do not, nor have I ever witnessed anyone doing this other than this video. But more importantly, intentionally loosing speed is counter to lightwind kiteboarding goals on pretty much any platform. And watch closely, the rider in this vid does sink the board. Only when you actually sink the board, does volume create a buoyant force. But to sink the board, you must be traveling extremely slow, or pearl the board. And sinking the board creates even more drag which makes it harder to get going again. If you can waterstart any type of board with a kite, then there is no reason to have volume. Only planing surface area matters because there is not a displacement stage like in windsurfing on the waterstart. This is because with the power stroke of a kite, the need for volume is eliminated since the kite/rider/board system accelerates quickly past the planing threshold. As the water falls off the top/back of the board, planing forces instantly take over from displacement. Buoyancy (from submerged volume) is not used to any effect.

Here is the long thread on this very topic.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2397685

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Re: lightwind surfboard

Postby bkkite » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:16 pm

I’ve slowly been moving into riding a directional from a twintip and I’ve really loved my 5’2 North Nugget.

I’m still leaning how to jibe / switch my feet, but getting up and riding in light winds was super easy.

I’ve never been on another surf board, so I have no point of comparison.


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