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Triple & quad ripstop

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windmaker
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Re: Triple & quad ripstop

Postby windmaker » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:17 pm

iriejohn wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:32 am
windmaker wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:38 am
To be 100% objectif some kite manufacturers (don't know about the new Naish) are using thicker (not stronger) threads on their leading edge which is theoretically less likely to cut through the cloth.
Roughly speaking the strength of a thread is determined by the square of its thickness so for this to be the case a proportionally weaker thread would have to be used.
The strength of the thread does not matter, even the weakest strength is strong enough, the thicker thread off course will be stronger but that's not why it is used, the thicker thread will not cut as easily through the cloth and therefore make a stronger seam.

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Re: Triple & quad ripstop

Postby iriejohn » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:23 pm

windmaker wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:17 pm
iriejohn wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:32 am
windmaker wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:38 am
To be 100% objectif some kite manufacturers (don't know about the new Naish) are using thicker (not stronger) threads on their leading edge which is theoretically less likely to cut through the cloth.
Roughly speaking the strength of a thread is determined by the square of its thickness so for this to be the case a proportionally weaker thread would have to be used.
The strength of the thread does not matter, even the weakest strength is strong enough, the thicker thread off course will be stronger but that's not why it is used, the thicker thread will not cut as easily through the cloth and therefore make a stronger seam.
You missed the point, it was you who said "thicker (not stronger)".

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Re: Triple & quad ripstop

Postby ced1 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:21 am

Another point to take into consideration in the argument for thicker ripstop is flexibility. The stiffer the material, the more it suffers in any fluttering. Stiffer ripstop will show cracks if exposed to flapping or fluttering (like when your kite is on the beach)
Ripstop is not inherently flexible but lighter ripstop seems to suffer less from the fluttering/flapping.

Just my observations of kites that use different ripstop.

Ced

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Re: Triple & quad ripstop

Postby omg » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:12 am

don't know if this has been here already, but some evidence (by Naish so take it...) on quad tex, at least in these tests:

Image

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Re: Triple & quad ripstop

Postby windmaker » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:23 am

Making strong is easy, making light and strong not so much..

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Re: Triple & quad ripstop

Postby Faxie » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:49 am

So all of a sudden almost no difference between 9600 and D2 anymore? Very strange... someone must be lying.

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ced1
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Re: Triple & quad ripstop

Postby ced1 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:18 am

Elongation test? Would be interested to see how that was done and how it relates to real kiteboarding situation.

Yes the strength of the material and it's stretchability would be important, but the most important?
What about: resistance to violent impact, resistance to flapping, sun exposure, resistance to stretch over time Weight to strength ratio...
In my opinion at least.

I do appreciate the fact that independent tests in controlled environments would be costly and time consuming.

Ced

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Re: Triple & quad ripstop

Postby iriejohn » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:19 pm

ced1 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:18 am
Elongation test? Would be interested to see how that was done and how it relates to real kiteboarding situation.

Yes the strength of the material and it's stretchability would be important, but the most important?
What about: resistance to violent impact, resistance to flapping, sun exposure, resistance to stretch over time Weight to strength ratio...
In my opinion at least.

I do appreciate the fact that independent tests in controlled environments would be costly and time consuming.

Ced
To the above should be added the fact that in the event of a tear the way the fabric tears is important because it directly influences the ease and cost of repairing a panel. A straight tear is far simpler to repair than a zig-zag jagged tear.

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Re: Triple & quad ripstop

Postby pj sofine » Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:24 pm

How is it possible that Naish has the new quadtex. exclusively? I would think they are just minor users compared to the overall market, whatever that is. Can a new fabric be developed, produced for such a small market?

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Re: Triple & quad ripstop

Postby Lokihel » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:12 pm

pj sofine wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:24 pm
How is it possible that Naish has the new quadtex. exclusively? I would think they are just minor users compared to the overall market, whatever that is. Can a new fabric be developed, produced for such a small market?
Ask and thou shall get I suppose.

I am almost certain that it is produce by same machine as the other 'newer' Teijin ripstop.
They probably just asked to have a batch made with a given spacing and ripstop every so many threads, and the guys at the Teijin factory set-up the machine for it.

Obviously this is highly simplified, I don't think it is a simple as asking them nicely to make something just for you.
On the other hand, I doubt Teijin had to spend any money of R&D to produce the material. It's like asking a bakery to make slightly larger croissants for you...


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