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Ozone Edge for beginners

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Matteo V
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Re: Ozone Edge for beginners

Postby Matteo V » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:16 pm

azoele wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:24 pm
FLandOBX, thanks for the suggestion on kites.
"Finally, I wouldn't recommend lots of light wind sessions for a beginner. ": eh! I wouldn't too... :) but these are the conditions I'll be facing for the next months to come, so... sigh! :-?
Your "conditions" are a little different. Specifically, how much experience you have to be at the lower edge of the wind possibilities for even experienced kiters. Couple that with the fact you will be trying a new kite from what you have started learning on, and you will be very frustrated.


azoele wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:24 pm
But I am not one to discourage easily: my first lessons were in 8knts, with the kite barely floating (and many a rush on the beach to keep it from stalling...), waiting for a tiny bit of extra breeze to make it stay up by itself.
Relaunch in the water is absolutely the key to learning. So it is good you don't discourage easily. Relaunch on a 19m Edge is tough for anyone in light winds or when the wind is laminar to the point where you have enough wind more than 4m's off the surface of the water to fly, but not enough wind to re-launch below 4m's off the water. In that case, bigger kites are of no real help.

Another problem with big light wind kites, for a beginner still learning to control stall, is the downwind yank you get when you do recover a stall in the back of the window. This even happens to me and more experienced kiters. While the kite is stalled, it is moving backwards deeper in the window. When the stall recovery (reattaching flow over the top of the kite) happens, you get a pretty powerful yank in line with the kite lines. And this yank is always more downwind after a stall than a simple gust hitting a kite on the edge of the window. This means you lose ground much more quickly with a bigger kite (more pull) if it is stalling and recovering constantly. So if you are still a this stage, or kite at a location with lots of turbulence that induces stall, you need to be on a kite size that won't yank you downwind so fast. Thus the paradox of a 12m kite keeping a beginner upwind for longer than a 17m kite.


azoele wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:24 pm
Now, picture this: a 105kg absolute beginner attempting waterstarts in 9knts, on a 131x39 board :D
(and I kept trying, and trying, and failing and failing... and I just didn't care, so happy to be in the water!).
This is your biggest gear issue, not kite size. You need a light wind TT. I can't imagine anyone here would disagree with me on this. So that is my challenge to other forum users - anyone think the OP should be on a 131x39 board in 9knots of wind on any size kite when the OP weighs 105kg???????


azoele wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:24 pm
I know I get hugely more frustrated by not going out than I ever would by experiencing difficulties due to large kites and complex-low-wind conditions... hence my desire for a kite that at least gives me a chance to be out there.
I figure, there'll be lot of time to learn tricks and play in better winds... and I'll have much more experience by then than if I had to wait for conditions to be proper and practice only then.
The best trick I ever learned was me (100kg) flying past other kiters (70kg) when I was on a 13.5m kite and other kiters were on 17m kites. Build your underpowerd skill at the beginner stages when the safety of being underpowered is more of a benefit than at any other time in your kiting experience. Later you can move up to perfectly powered, and occasionally overpowered.

But the best thing you will learn on a 12-14m beginner friendly kite is to loop it in light winds. You can't expect to develop that skill with a 19m kite (though you can apply it once developed). Looping an underpowered kite for more power and coordinating that loop with a precisely timed upwind turning path is the skill that allows the use of a smaller kite than most other "park and ride" kiters, even when you out weight them.


But no matter what, you have to fix your board size issue.

azoele
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Re: Ozone Edge for beginners

Postby azoele » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:34 pm

Thanks Matteo, a lot of food for thought :thumb:

The possibility of sudden downwind pull after a backstall of a very large kite gave me pause: I am old enough to be willing to concede very, very little in terms of personal safety.
If, on the other hand, it is mostly a matter of losing extra ground (and just elongating the usual walk of shame)... then no problem with me :D

Also, in the not-too-many hours since I began, I backstalled probably only twice or thrice; the first times due to the new (to me) feeling of holding the kite in the air. The last during a total wind lull that caught me and another kiter by surprise (and of course, our lines tangled... luckily, at least he was very experienced :) )
Although, a bigger kite might prove more difficult to keep in the air than my 14m.

Lastly: the small board is a (sweet) thing of the past.
I currently use a 5.5 Nugget surf, mostly because...it's the biggest they make it :D

Thanks for the suggestions, and bests,
Lopi

P.s.
Passing light-weight kiters on a small kite?
It'll take me ages, but it's good to dream! :D

Matteo V
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Re: Ozone Edge for beginners

Postby Matteo V » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:57 pm

azoele wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:34 pm
Thanks for the suggestions, and bests,
Lopi
:thumb:
Welcome to kiteboarding, good luck, and stay safe.

Please come back to this thread and post your experience, your future thoughts on the advice you received here, and what you learned from applying (or ignoring) advice from here. It will help future aspiring kiters who will be in your current position in the future.

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Re: Ozone Edge for beginners

Postby baxterbradford » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:02 pm

I have regularly used large kites with surfboard and I'm a fair bit heavier than yourself. I had a 13m Edge whilst learning so it wasn't too daunting. It sat under my 17m Zephyr in my quiver. The Zephyr is a really well behaved kite, but not without 2 aspects I think I ought to share. It's not really 17 sq m, laid on top of my 14m Enduro, it was about 1.5 sq m bigger if that. Chord (Leading edge to trailing edge) was identical. The other thing is along with the Edge, that a 5 strut kite is much heavier than 3 strut so it tends to fall backwards with gravity into the water when the wind drops. As others have said, relaunching in light wind isn't easy. The extra struts add stability, so improve top end, I had the Zephyr out in 26 knots one day when wind increased rapidly and significantly.
I sold my Zephyr and replaced with a low aspect 3 strut kite which improved the bottom end very nicely. It was a Core Free 17m LW.

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Re: Ozone Edge for beginners

Postby Jukka » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:01 pm

Matteo has good points about large kite stalling and then giving a fairly powerfull yank downwind. That will happen when learning, and keeps happening when in marginal winds when more experienced.
But the thing with a 17m yank, in light wind, is that even having quite some power in it, that you should be ready for, it's still very smooth and "friendly" yank. Now drop a 9m deep in wind window in high wind and the yank is different level violent and fast (Yeah, I know the 9m would usually not drop similarly due to lack of wind, but just as comparison...).

And regarding looping, I did my first surface loops with a high aspect 5-strut 17m. No issues there. Slow turning, smooth and powerful pull. Still find it just as easy and safe to surface loop as a 9m, or perhaps even safer when riding it in steady low winds. Just slower and different (smoother) pull.

I have not tried an Edge, but I would say:
- If that is what you see yourself liking in a year or two, go for it now.
- If you ride in deep waters and relaunch is a priority, don't go for it.
- If you anyway plan to buy new gear in few years, buy something easier now and re-evalute after few years.

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Re: Ozone Edge for beginners

Postby knyfe » Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:42 am

I am 80kgs and ride a 160 door in low winds. My rule of thumb is: when I walk with the wind and I still feel blowing from behind I am good. Now convert that to knots :-$ low wind riding is all about board speed / apparent wind. See foils for that.

I gave up bigger kites a while ago as they just did not do it for me. You still need to pussyloop them with a pop for me to have fun.

Foilers are our at the same time but with smaller kites but also come in when I come in as no one wants to get stuck outside with low wind anyway.

Hope that helps. G

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Re: Ozone Edge for beginners

Postby Andres_Santacruz » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:43 am

Azoele welcome, i have been on Ozone Kites for 8 years, i sell them and use them, and usually have large quivers for all conditions and riding styles/disciplines so i get to try the full range in lot's of sizes. The Ozone Zephyr is a lot more user friendly in the larger sizes than the Edge. I Usually do not sell or use Edges above 13m, as others have said, they are very performant 5 strut kites that do not relaunch very easily in lighter winds and are more for very experienced kiters who can downloop a kite out of a stall and keep them flying by actively moving them around in the lulls or wind dips.
The Edge 13m is very powerful and a fantastic kite, and could be your medium to stronger wind kite once you gain more experience and have stronger winds. I have noticed that a lot of beginner and intermediates here in Mexico love the Edge because it does not oversheet or backstall easily, and has a lot of progressive static pull, and turns more in an arc than a pivot, compared to other kites that loop around their axis. I think this makes it a very predictable kite for beginners, and once it is moving it creates a lot of power, and goes upwind very well. The Zephyrs have always had some Edge DNA but turn very nicely you can actually freestyle on them and loop them, and are very friendly kites. We get lighter wind very frequently at Acapulco, Mexico City's sort of local kite spot (although about 4-5 hour drive away). There are many many days when the only ones out having fun are my customers on Ozone Zephyrs. I saw you could get a 2013 zephyr, if it is at a good price (and it should be), i would get it if i were you. Also think about getting 3-5 or even 10 meter line extensions, this will give you more power and make your wind window bigger. You are not as heavy as you think, i am now 95 kg but was 103 kg some months ago and the Zephyr got me going no problem.

I can also highly recommend an Axis Patrol or Ultra lightwind twintip, super fun and performant in lighter to medium winds : http://www.axiskiteboarding.com/product ... -pwTXRKhE4 and http://www.axiskiteboarding.com/product ... -pwTXRKhE4 .
Where are you based or where do you live? So we can maybe find you a dealer for Axis.

Also when you get more experience Foil kite have a lot of power and range, the Ozone Chrono V3 is amazing, the 15m has alot of range.

Cheers!
Last edited by Andres_Santacruz on Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ozone Edge for beginners

Postby plummet » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:24 am

No dont get a 19m edge and attempt to learn in 9 knots. You will just end up swimming. Plus if the wind pulls up to 15-20 knots you will be punnish.
Be patient and wait for 15 knots. Below that is a waste of time while learning unless you just want to body drag around.

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Re: Ozone Edge for beginners

Postby Andres_Santacruz » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:09 pm

plummet wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:24 am
No dont get a 19m edge and attempt to learn in 9 knots. You will just end up swimming. Plus if the wind pulls up to 15-20 knots you will be punnish.
Be patient and wait for 15 knots. Below that is a waste of time while learning unless you just want to body drag around.
I disagree, i think not enough kiters out there know how to properly fly a kite and milk it for all it is worth in lighter winds. The first years i started kiting, if there was enough wind to fly my kite on the beach i would fly it for hours. All the kite hours flying will help your progress.

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Re: Ozone Edge for beginners

Postby Slappysan » Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:20 pm

Sounds like you are in the San Diego area, steady 8-9 knots daily thermals with nice ground swell waves.

I would stick with the big kite and Nugget, they will serve you well once you get past the learning stage. Learning in light wind is much harder though, but you make do with what you've got.

Do not go with a 19 Edge, instead get a light weight 17m kite like LF Solo or Airush Ultra.

Also you might consider learning on a mountain board if there are any good land kiting spots in your area. You would need a smaller ram air kite for that though but it's probably your fastest way to learn.


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