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Broken control bar

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downunder
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Re: Broken control bar

Postby downunder » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:44 am

Matty is funny, one should see his own posted pics, what a lauhing stock...

Let me try to clear it for you: the bar is just that. The bar. Nothing wrong with my 2005 Cab bar.
The bits and pieces with the bar tho makes a control bar, and than you do this:

“Keep the old bar, u might like the feel of it more. Than get help if needed to swap the lines and other bits to it.”

Not a rocket surgery Matty, as you are trying to present in 2000 words reply.

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Re: Broken control bar

Postby Kitesurfingsouthport » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:16 pm

Hi
No it’s not a wind up but the guy was not from the north west he was from Bristol way I had to travel down to pick it up. I’ve already had 2 lessons but the instructor at ainsdale has packed in and moved to Spain so I’m after finding another one if anybody knows of any in the north west.

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Re: Broken control bar

Postby Kitesurfingsouthport » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:27 pm

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:56 pm
if you on a budget, you may be able to cut all the lines down by a couple of ms . if you are left with over 20m of each line

all lines equal length usually

fractured skulls.. did their brain end up ok?

i seen a brain injury happen in front of my own eyes.. deathloop beach launch (bridle tangle i think it was) to 10m body slingshot to sand head impact). Brain injury was life changing for them.
Yes he was fine but in trouble with his wife tho so the kite had to go

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Re: Broken control bar

Postby Matteo V » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:49 pm

downunder wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:44 am
Matty is funny, one should see his own posted pics, what a lauhing stock...

Let me try to clear it for you: the bar is just that. The bar. Nothing wrong with my 2005 Cab bar.
The bits and pieces with the bar tho makes a control bar, and than you do this:

“Keep the old bar, u might like the feel of it more. Than get help if needed to swap the lines and other bits to it.”

Not a rocket surgery Matty, as you are trying to present in 2000 words reply.

For the safety of other readers here, I have to correct you on this - A BAR IS NOT JUST A BAR!!!

There have been too many safety systems, line lengths, CL releases, and leash points (or multiple options) since the modern looking bar came on the market around 2000, for all bars to be considered the same or nearly equal. And as far as your reference to "feel of a bar", what the heck are you talking about???? Weight? Bar grip? Length? These are all self evident.

Here is the real reason why 'a bar is not just a bar'.

1. The safety systems that have existed, excluding foil kites, could be
a. 5th line flag out above the bar
b. 5th line flag out below the bar
c. single front line flag out above the bar
d. single front line flag out below the bar
e. double front line flag out below the bar
f. single rear line on the OSR.
- or at least these are the safety systems I have had experience with, and I am sure there are more. And if you have an incompatible bar safety system/kite, the releasing of it onto that safety system may cause a more dangerous situation than not releasing it. NEVER GIVE ANY ADVICE WHICH WOULD LEAD TO A BEGINNER TRYING ANY OLD BAR WITH ANY OLD KITE!!! This issue alone will get them hurt, killed, or your kiteboarding access banned.

2. Line lengths are extremely important to be matched to the brand/year required by that particular kite. While modern kites typically have equal length line sets, even the newest bars vary enough with depower/trim to cause a dangerous overpowered/backstall issue or even a situation where rear line tension was not enough (too much depower/rear line slack) to steer the kite. Either way, the kite can become uncontrollable and get them hurt, or worse. NEVER GIVE ANY ADVICE WHICH WOULD LEAD TO A BEGINNER TRYING ANY OLD (or new) BAR WITH ANY OLD (or new) KITE!!!

3. Chicken loop (CL) releases have varied in function, reliability, and have even had defects which make them dangerous in certain situations. No one, over 90kgs should continue to use the Best CL release on Redline bars from 2010 to 2012. They will not hold (and eventually not reload). Given that this causes them to release onto 2 front lines, kite control can not be reestablished and the kite can go to either side of the window. And that is just one example. There are many others, even defects in less than 5 year old releases. NEVER GIVE ADVICE THAT INDICATES MORE THAN 5 YEAR OLD GEAR IS GOOD TO USE WITH OUT CAREFUL EXAMINATION AND SOME GROUND TESTS!!!

downunder wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:44 am
Let me try to clear it for you: the bar is just that. The bar. Nothing wrong with my 2005 Cab bar.


Downsy, I have seen you give some bad advice here before. But I have never seen any advice as bad as this directed to a newbie. Please tell me that you understand what I have laid out here. I have to believe that this is just me misunderstanding your post.

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Re: Broken control bar

Postby badgb21 » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:29 pm

I think you lit your fuse a bit too early.
Read his whole paragraph before ranting;

Let me try to clear it for you: the bar is just that. The bar. Nothing wrong with my 2005 Cab bar.
The bits and pieces with the bar tho makes a control bar, and than you do this:




Matteo V wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:49 pm
downunder wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:44 am
Matty is funny, one should see his own posted pics, what a lauhing stock...

Let me try to clear it for you: the bar is just that. The bar. Nothing wrong with my 2005 Cab bar.
The bits and pieces with the bar tho makes a control bar, and than you do this:

“Keep the old bar, u might like the feel of it more. Than get help if needed to swap the lines and other bits to it.”

Not a rocket surgery Matty, as you are trying to present in 2000 words reply.

For the safety of other readers here, I have to correct you on this - A BAR IS NOT JUST A BAR!!!

There have been too many safety systems, line lengths, CL releases, and leash points (or multiple options) since the modern looking bar came on the market around 2000, for all bars to be considered the same or nearly equal. And as far as your reference to "feel of a bar", what the heck are you talking about???? Weight? Bar grip? Length? These are all self evident.

Here is the real reason why 'a bar is not just a bar'.

1. The safety systems that have existed, excluding foil kites, could be
a. 5th line flag out above the bar
b. 5th line flag out below the bar
c. single front line flag out above the bar
d. single front line flag out below the bar
e. double front line flag out below the bar
f. single rear line on the OSR.
- or at least these are the safety systems I have had experience with, and I am sure there are more. And if you have an incompatible bar safety system/kite, the releasing of it onto that safety system may cause a more dangerous situation than not releasing it. NEVER GIVE ANY ADVICE WHICH WOULD LEAD TO A BEGINNER TRYING ANY OLD BAR WITH ANY OLD KITE!!! This issue alone will get them hurt, killed, or your kiteboarding access banned.

2. Line lengths are extremely important to be matched to the brand/year required by that particular kite. While modern kites typically have equal length line sets, even the newest bars vary enough with depower/trim to cause a dangerous overpowered/backstall issue or even a situation where rear line tension was not enough (too much depower/rear line slack) to steer the kite. Either way, the kite can become uncontrollable and get them hurt, or worse. NEVER GIVE ANY ADVICE WHICH WOULD LEAD TO A BEGINNER TRYING ANY OLD (or new) BAR WITH ANY OLD (or new) KITE!!!

3. Chicken loop (CL) releases have varied in function, reliability, and have even had defects which make them dangerous in certain situations. No one, over 90kgs should continue to use the Best CL release on Redline bars from 2010 to 2012. They will not hold (and eventually not reload). Given that this causes them to release onto 2 front lines, kite control can not be reestablished and the kite can go to either side of the window. And that is just one example. There are many others, even defects in less than 5 year old releases. NEVER GIVE ADVICE THAT INDICATES MORE THAN 5 YEAR OLD GEAR IS GOOD TO USE WITH OUT CAREFUL EXAMINATION AND SOME GROUND TESTS!!!

downunder wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:44 am
Let me try to clear it for you: the bar is just that. The bar. Nothing wrong with my 2005 Cab bar.


Downsy, I have seen you give some bad advice here before. But I have never seen any advice as bad as this directed to a newbie. Please tell me that you understand what I have laid out here. I have to believe that this is just me misunderstanding your post.

Matteo V
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Re: Broken control bar

Postby Matteo V » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:58 pm

badgb21 wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:29 pm
I think you lit your fuse a bit too early.
Read his whole paragraph before ranting;

Let me try to clear it for you: the bar is just that. The bar. Nothing wrong with my 2005 Cab bar.
The bits and pieces with the bar tho makes a control bar, and than you do this:


So would you give the recommendation to a beginner (like the OP) to get some old gear (bars) and piece that old gear together? Or do you agree with my point about not mixing up stuff at this stage in a kitesurfers experience?

merl
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Re: Broken control bar

Postby merl » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:31 pm

longwhitecloud wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:56 pm
all lines equal length usually

fractured skulls..
Disregard this careless post. This kite does NOT have lines of equal length when connected to the bar. (Unlike all modern bars/kites).

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Re: Broken control bar

Postby slim_charles » Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:34 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:07 pm
If you do have a C-kite as others are mentioning, you NEED A 5th LINE BAR!!! Do not let anyone else tell you otherwise.
Lol - except when it's a 4 line.

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Re: Broken control bar

Postby Matteo V » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:39 am

slim_charles wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 10:34 pm
Matteo V wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:07 pm
If you do have a C-kite as others are mentioning, you NEED A 5th LINE BAR!!! Do not let anyone else tell you otherwise.
Lol - except when it's a 4 line.
Slimey, let me repost the rest of my paragraph and explain it to you, again. But thanks for taking my statement completely out of context. You have given me a textbook example of that. However, for you to post your comment, you must have had some experience with 4-line C-kites back in the day. Could you tell us about that???
Matteo V wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:07 pm
If you do have a C-kite as others are mentioning, you NEED A 5th LINE BAR!!! Do not let anyone else tell you otherwise. Even if the kite will fly and possibly flag to a single steering line as on old C-kites, you will not be able to re-launch or it will take you 20 times longer to relaunch even if you know what you are doing.
Is that better??? Get it??? The OP is a newbie. And 4 line C-kites are a nightmare to relaunch without the 5th line. Not a problem back in the day when all of us were using 4-line C-kites with the kite on the water in good winds for multiple tries at a relaunch. Back then, when you got discouraged that you could not relaunch, you just looked at your friend that had been down on the water for more time than you. We all suffered together. But if a newb goes out with an old 4line, that newb is going to take a week in waist deep water just to learn the relaunch. And likely, he will be watching lots of other kiters blasting by him. Even other newb's with modern kites will be back up and flying a hundred times for every successful relaunch the newb has with an old 4-line C-kite.

Modern kites do not provide that kind of "swimming fun" (sarcasm) that the old 4-line C-kites did. Even modern C-kites are almost all 5-line just so you have a reasonable chance of relaunching in the same hour as someone on a modern bow/delta.

And lastly, if you chop up a paragraph, try to add some periods like....... that so you indicate you are taking a piece of an idea, instead of it's entirety. That is pretty easy and makes sense when you quote someone. And it gives others the idea to go back and read the original post, just in case the critique was unintentionally misinformed.

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Re: Broken control bar

Postby longwhitecloud » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:54 am

is that for real... they sold uneven line sets.. didnt bother to make up with bridles/ leaders lines as most companies do, i guess it is possible, but f$&ing wierd!


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