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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 5:36 pm 
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I gave me 2 cents worth on what I have to say about the latest SlingShot gear. It's taken a day or two, but those word have sure enough shown up on the internet. :wink:

Check em out at....
http://www.tampabaykitesurf.com/news.html

Enjoy!

Johnny

oh....and feel free to let your questions fly at me, but please, read what has been written before asking.
:smile:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 9:49 pm 
I have been looking at new Slingshot Surf (by Doyle) that you posted pics of a few days ago. My question is what size would you recommend to a ~200lbs rider for a moderate to higher wind board i.e. around 15-25kts. Perhaps you could mention some pros/cons of both sizes for the given situation.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:09 am 
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Hi Johnny,
RE: LFT (Little Fat Twin)... We rode it in 7-8 knot winds using a 16m SlingShot Fuel
How heavy was the rider?
Thanks
Jo


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:43 am 
Have you flown the 17m Fuel?

What sort of Wind Range would you expect for a 90kg rider (average abilities)?

Hows the relaunch?

Does the quick release Chicken Loop come standard with the kites?

Whats the meaning of life? (just kidding)


Thanks,

Pete


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 4:43 am 
Have you flown the 17m Fuel?

What sort of Wind Range would you expect for a 90kg rider (average abilities)?

Hows the relaunch?

Does the quick release Chicken Loop come standard with the kites?

Whats the meaning of life? (just kidding)


Thanks,

Pete


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:24 am 
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<h2>ZOOMIE:</h2> This really depends on your style and skill level as well as the wind conditions you plan to be riding the board in. If you are a fairly new to medium skilled rider, the Drake will seem too small and quick for you. On the other hand, if you are busting some pretty tweaked out sh*t, and your skill level is high enough, I'd say go with the Drake. This is also dependant on what sort of power you are comfortable dealing with. I'm the type of guy who likes to have an assisted launch on the very edge of the window, and still need someone to hang onto the handle on the back of my harness and help to get me to where I need to be. Most guys don't ride quite this powered up. Let me say though that I myself, riding as lit as I like to ride, have managed to keep control on the Jarvis on a 14m SlingShot kite in 25knots of wind gusting to 30. I personally have switched to the Drake recently because I wanted/needed a smaller faster board, that and a friend I let try my Jarvis absolutley refuses to give it back. He'd rather just pay me for it.

If you are wanting to get any use out of your new Skate board in winds less than 15 or 17 knots, I'd say you will get much more use out of the Jarvis. You aren't exactley a real heavy rider, but then you aren't really a light rider either.

The Jarvis is designed for heavier riders than the Drake. Example...if I was riding on my Drake in 15 knots of wind on a 15m kite, and then you grabbed my same rig and tried it yourself, you'd prolly find it doesn't work so great for you and you may have a hard to impossible time getting back upwind. Now, if you came back in and we put the Jarvis on your feet and sent you back out on the same kite and same winds, then you'd be able to have performance comparable to mine on the smaller board. This is because you have 35 pounds of weight on me. As far as being so overpowered on the Jarvis that you can't hold an edge, this just isn't true. If you are on a skate series board and find yourself way overpowered and having a hard time keeping the rail in the water where and how you want it, you simply remove the two EXTRA heelside fins, and you're good to go again.

The Drake is designed for smaller riders, or riders of fairly decent skill level who are comfortable holding down pleanty of power. You told me what winds you'd like to be flying in, but you didn't mention the kite size you'd fly in those winds, so I'm really just trying to work out the scenarios here for you.

So, to recap, in short, the Jarvis is designed for larger, heavier riders AND, but not limited to, riders of a lower skill level.(just because you own a Jarvis doesn't make you the rookie on the beach). It's used in light to moderate winds, but then, we all may have differ ideas of moderate winds. As stated above, my little 165 pound ass used the Jarvis on a 14m in 25-30 knots successfully, so it can be used in higher wind ranges. The Drake is for smaller riders, AND, but not limited to, more advanced riders with better board skills, and higher winds. I havent gotten to try my Drake yet super lit as we havent had winds above 20 since as long as I can remember(i can only remember bout a week back btw), but I'm sure that board will work great for me.

I also have and use the Morph Surf. This is because I started kitesurfing way back when directionals were all you seen. I kind of grew a liking to that style, and even though I gave it up and switched to twintips, I still like to go back to the directional ride from time to time. So my morph is and stays setup in true surf style mode. How much power I can hold down with this board, again, has yet to be determined. While this board is morphable to a twintip or something in between, I wouldn't recommend this board to anyone who is seeking a new board that they plan to ride as a twintip only. Not because it doesn't work, but because it does have a directional rocker, and this seems kinds pointless to me if you plan to use it for a twintip only.

Zoomie, my advice to you is to try before you buy if at all possible. If you are anywhere near local to me, I'd be happy to get the differ boards under your feet for you. If trying them is out of the question, then I think I would suggest that you take the Jarvis(SMOKIN' graphics). I doubt that you will be trying to hold it down in more winds with more kite than I described that I have, and if you do, you still have 35 pounds more ass to hold it with than I, but if that riding style is in fact your flavor, and you already have a board that you are happy with for lighter to moderate winds, then maybe you should go with the Drake. If I could question you, talk to you about how you are, how you are riding, conditions, kites, skill level, what boards you have used, do use and do own, I could help you out so much better. IF you'd like to go that route, then by all means, feel free to give me a call. My number is 555-555-5555. :wink: Seriously though, if you goto our website, http://www.tbks.net, and click the 'Lessons' button and follow that through to the last page, you will find two numbers there. One for our retail shop, and one that rings directly through to me and my cell phone. If it's me you wish to speak to, use the cell number.

<h2>Mr Jo Macdonald</h2>
The rider was none other than myself. I only weigh 165 pounds...sometimes hitting 170ish, but I try to stay around 165. NOT to try to make myself out to be some great icon or anything, but I think that you should be aware of the fact that I learned to ride in seriuosly underpowered conditions. My first kite was a 9m several years ago, and it just was NOT enough kite for my area on 362 out of 365 days. Because of this, I became somewhat of a master light wind sailor. It was basically that I had to learn to make myself go on that 9m underpowered, or not ride at all(at the time I had zero sponsors and just damn sure couldnt afford to buy another, larger kite) If you are already somewhat of a proficient lightwind rider, then you'll prolly be able to duplicate or damn near duplicate the results I came up with on the LFT. Let me also add that normally, when the wind drops that low, I'd rather just go home and masterbate or something, but when I DO feel like staying at the beach in winds under 10, I normally used to grab my SlingShot Manta board as I also found it to be a nice lightwind board that spared me many a walk of shames. If winds got to low for the Jarvis, I'd then grab my old F-One XM80 Directional board. I always found those big floaty things seemed to me to be the ultimate in light winds. [[[Sorry, this post is getting long, but I THINK it's all relevant to the questions asked]]] I'm not the ONLY person out at our launch with these old F-One boards either. So normally, when it get's too low for everyone to ride, you would sometimes still find me and a couple others on the water, able to stay upwind because we were using these f-one directionals and the others only have the twintips. Let me try to make this long story short.....2 weeks ago, this was all different. I showed up at the beach, wind was blowing good enough to get me to rig up my 14m kite. Luckily, at the time, I was letting someone demo my 16m kite, so they had it set up ready to go too. By the time I got the 14 ready, the winds had dropped drastically. I was late again...as usual. The winds went so low that they guy trying my 16m had to do the walk of shame back up the beach as he couldn't get back upwind with my 16 in those light winds...he was using a fairly large LiteWave board for what that's worth. EVEN the guys with the big F-One directionals couldn't go out on their big kites at this time. The wind had literally dropped to the point to where you could just barely keep your kite in the air, and if you dare take it anywhere near the edge of the window, it stalls and falls...you all know this windspeed. Well, I grabbed the 16m from him when he came in with it and I tried going out on my trust worthy Manta board. After doing the walk of shame, I then stepped up to my large f-one directional board. After again doing the walk of shame, I decided it was time to try the very low end ability of the LFT. I took it out and the walking part of the game was now past tense. I was not getting very much upwind, but I was returning back AT wind. It was so impressive that a friend present took out his windmeter, which was now reading a mere 4knots on the shoreline, and held it up in front of the camera with me in the background and snapped a photo of it all.

SO, if I were to answer your question without adding the stories to help comfirm it all, the answer would simply be 165 lbs.

<h2>PETE:</h2>
Yes, I have flown the new 17m 2003 Fuel. What you can expect to see from this kite is mutliple(3) hookup points on the leading edge of the kite and multiple(3) hookup points on the rear of the kite. By utilizing these different attachment points, the range of the kite can be drastically reduced as well as drastically improved. But, since I havent gotten to thoroughly try it out yet in variable winds, I can't really say how well the kite will do for a rider of your weight(not to mention that I have no idea how many pounds 90kg is and am too lazy to cross referecne it at the moment) As far as the wind range goes though, this is a very good question. I feel the best way for me to demostrate for you the wind range for the kite would be to create a chart for you that will give you some idea of how these new hookup points work. I will get on top of that right now and should have it uploaded to our site in the next 30 minutes or so. Once I do, I will return to this forum and post the pic here for you to see and read. I think that by this means only will you really understand what they have going with the new kites and their tweaked out attachemnt points. Relaunchability seems to me to be about the same as the 2002 Fuels. They relaunch ok if you know how to relaunch a kite, but they don't relaunch quite as easy as the new GTO series, which is a lower AR than the Fuel. The Chicken loop Quick Release will be standard on all the new bars, and it has been tested in mud, clay, sand, dust, and under load. The meaning of life is to kitesurf our hearts out while we still have a somewhat peaceful world to do it in!

I hope this has been of some help to ya's and not so long and boring that you didn't finish reading it entirely.

I don't mind the questions at all, keep 'em coming, all I ask is that you please read the TBKS.NET newspage first so as to not ask something that has already been answered.(no, not saying anyone has done that yet, and for this I am greatful, keep up the good work)

Visualize Whirled Pea's
Johnny

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Johnny TBKS on 2002-09-25 06:26 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Johnny TBKS on 2002-09-25 06:32 ]</font>


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:28 am 
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AHHH crap. I just realized ZOOMIE was asking about the Morph and NOT the Skate series. My bad bro. I'd recommend for you the Surf 150 in those winds, the same one I use, if you are a proficient rider. But the offer still stands to chat about it live over the phone if you'd like.

Ok, I'm out for a bit to work on that graph. Back in a bit....

Johnny


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:59 am 
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Thanks Johnny,
The Fuels are great kites I agree and the imo the 16m will get an 80 kg rider going from about 7-9 knots on a big directional.
As you mentioned in the post the wind was changing a lot so maybe you got just a little more than 7-8 to go upwind on the 170x50 and maybe the kite was just about to fall out of the sky at 4 knots or is your anemometer bust?
It sounds like a great board man but 4-7-8 knots upwind on a wide twintip sounds a bit underestimated for a 16m fuel.

Jo


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 6:42 am 
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Hey Jo,
I can't really say exactley what the wind was doing as I was on the water and not watching a meter. I can tell you though that at times I was having a very difficult time keeping the kite in the air at all. Also, I have had only 2 sessions on the board and was trying to wait until I can further try it before offering much input on it. I hadn't and havent gotten to try the board in other super light winds. I tried it once other with a bit more power on it to see how it would hold an edge. The harder I pushe on it, the tighter it seemed to hold. Grab one and give it a spin when ya get a chance. They are great. I was able to ride that board when all the larger directionals were failing at staying at wind...this I DO KNOW.

Now then, about the graph I went off to create for ya's. I did it. The graphics on my creation aren't much to look at as I just slammed it together, but it did take 30 minutes of my time, so I kind of laid a claim to the image. Anone wishing to use it, just send me an email asking...shouldnt be a big problem.

<IMAGE SRC="http://www.tampabaykitesurf.com/images/slingshot/fueltipsetup.jpg"</image>

Hope this helps to clear things up a bit as I have stayed up past my normal bedtime to get it done for ya's. ENJOY!

Pea's OuT!

Johnny



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Johnny TBKS on 2002-09-25 07:48 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 8:12 am 
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Johnny,

I don't quite understand the graph. Why does the wind range get smaller and smaller on the front attachment points, but the bar pressure change on the back ones? So far, I thought that when you move the front lines further back, they are closer to the centre of effort of the kite, hence take up more of the pressure, hence less pressure on the back lines?!
I can see that the pressure will increase as you move the back lines forward, but shouldn't it also decrease the depowering range?

Cheers
Nico


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