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New 2003 kites are no longer slow

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Mr Jo Macdonald
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Postby Mr Jo Macdonald » Sun Oct 06, 2002 6:46 pm

Hi Marina,
Re: The new 2003 kites are no longer slow-- they turn like 12meters!
I agree the new 2003 kites do seem to be faster than the 2002 ones. We already have the new fuels here and they turn faster, have more depower and are generally friendlier than the 2002 ones.
From what I can tell a lot of 2003 kites have a higher Ar and wider tips than last years model. In fact a lot of this years kites are looking like last years supertypes and X2s. These were and still are great kites in more wind but have less low end than others. For example there are often riders on 18m X2s and 19m RRds out in the same conditions as riders the same weight on 16m fuels or Rhinos, doing the same moves too.
If the big breakthrough for big 2003 kites is really just higher Ar this may also mean the same size kite pulls less at the low end but you can use a fast turning bigger kite.
Maybe this is why fuels are 1m bigger this year. In fact last year a few people I know tried the 22.5 rhino and didn't like it, too slow at the low end and once the wind picked up the 16 was way better.
People who are blessed with good wind, (15+) maybe won't notice much difference but people using kites in their low end range want low end power and speed if poss thankyou.
A big , fast, high Ar kite will be great for competition result but may suck for the punters trying to get out there in as less wind as possible.
What do you think?

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Postby Dwight » Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:39 pm

I can speak to some of your questions. Not all kites in 2003 have thrown away low end to get high end. Some kite designers are using lower angles of attack to get huge top end. In my view, better choice of draft placement and camber depth, coupled with smart selection of angle of attack, can produce a kite with good low end and high end. Really low angles of attack can cause occasional over flying. You just need to be more selective as a buyer. Test as many kites as you can to find the one that suits you. Once you find a kite brand, or designer, who you like, you should be able to trust him to provide kites of similar style, year after year.

Check the post from Andoni comparing the Rhino2, Aero2 and x2. You can see in the Rhino2 that high end has not been thrown away to get top end. People love the x2, but the one minor common gripe about the BIG (not small) sizes has been the sacrifice of low end.

Look at the new MACH 2. They talk about fixing the low-end problem with the MACH 1. That was a kite famous for high end. People raved about its high end. Don’t forget to factor in low end when talking about range. All high end does not always mean WIDE RANGE.

By the way, I’m riding an 18m kite with the high end of an old 12m kite and the low end of a 20m kite. Now that’s range! The future is bright. Clever people will know what I mean. Don’t ask me anymore.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dwight on 2002-10-07 13:41 ]</font>

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Mr Jo Macdonald
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Postby Mr Jo Macdonald » Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:47 pm

Dwight, I know, word has it they just signed you for the new psycho team, but don't worry I won't tell a soul.

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Postby shunter » Mon Oct 07, 2002 12:54 pm

You mention testing as many kites as you can. but i feel its pretty hard to get a good idea of how a kite will fly even after a few hours on the water. When i swaped over to the higher aspect kites from the sluggers (RRD) it has taken me a few sessions to get use to them. To get them tuned to suit my ridding style and bar position and i am still tweaking things. Now i have i wouldnt swap back.

Good to hear about the Norths having good upper wind range. wonder what the upwind ability is like and if they are heavy steers (bar pressure) kiters elbow is almost dictating that i fly front line loving kites.



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Postby marina » Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:25 pm

Hi Joe et al,

I think Dwight pretty much hit everything I would say about the new kites:-) so I won't be repetitive..... The only thing I can add is that mfg's are paying more attention to the lower end. Notice the bigger kites only give you about a 2 knot advantage as you go up in size? If a buyer is concerned about low end range, then they should try a size up


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Postby Fabjet1 » Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:30 pm

Hi shunter,

I also have a RRD 14 Type 4.1 2002 and suffer from elbpws problem.
I'm now obligated to fly front line steering kite with low bar pressure.
What do You recomend for 2003?
What kite are you now flying and is the pain gone just by flying thoses new kite?

I'm very interested in the answer, I want the pain to be gone so I can stay on the water longer,

Thks in advance...

From what I gathered; F-1, Takoon, Gaastra.
Do you think the Rhino 2 is out seeing the new post and the comparaison with X2, and Aero 2?


Postby Guest » Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:35 pm

One way to prevent tennis elbow is exercise your forearms. get a one to two foot long broom handle and put a hole in it(kite bar works too) then attach a weight through a rope and roll the rope up and then down. Do this until you're tired everyday and you will build up endurance. Also they sell bands to put on your forearms while kiting at any local tennis shop. These help, but the exercise is best. Start off slow and build. Worked for me!



Postby Guest » Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:28 pm

just dont sail underpowert...

Then your arms stops too hurt.!


Postby Guest » Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:42 pm

That too, but after a while if you have tennis elbow they will hurt and it's a serious problem for some. even starting a lawn mower can become hard.

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Postby chirojoseph » Mon Oct 07, 2002 7:30 pm

Jo mentioned strengthening the forearm muscles...and thats important if you are just beginning this type of sport..but i think most of us have been at it for awhile and maybe have been windsurfers before etc.

I sound repetitive but why not just concentrate on MAINTENANCE..that is, brush your teeth, change your chicken loop line once in a while when it looks ratty, and STRETCH those flexor/extensor muscles every day before you go out and once again before going to bed. If you are in bad shape already make sure to ICE after long sessions for 15 minutes to decrease the inflammation.

The velcro straps sold to decrease the tendonitis can help because it distributes the load of the tendon insertion into the bone over a wider area. But you dont want to become dependent on wearing those and they also can cut off your circulation a bit and they really chafe if you get sand stuck in there between your skin.

again, for those interested the stretch guide at shows the commonly used technique for stretching the common flexor and extensor tendons of the forearm.

also, have a look at "hernans" bar that he has at the files section of the Yahoo group. If you are in light winds with a big kite you might want to try this "bungee" fixed loop which will allow you to take some pressure off the arms.

Lastly, dont forget that if all else fails you could try an ARC. I have foils, arcs, and inflos and can tell you that if you kite a few months with an arc the pain in your elbows will DEFINATELY go away!

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