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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:24 am 
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Yeah this is what I was saying in the "New 2003 kites are no longer slow" post. Seems that especially big LEIs are going high Ar to make them faster. So buying this years fuel or rhino is sortof like buying last years X2 or supertype.
Every kite company says its kites are great in low wind, which is just hype imo and what worries me is that it seems that many companies are focusing their attention on more control and therfore power in more wind which is fine as long as this doesn't also mean less low end power.
Flysurfer, north, slingshot, etc, as far as I can tell seem to be going in this direction.
Slingshot are pretty honest with their windranges and they're saying the new kites have the same range as the old ones which were 1 m2 smaller.
Cynical old Jo


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:57 am 
Only reason I give in to all the hype is because I'm running a crappy old season X2 which has no lift, slow turning and no power. :grin:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 9:17 am 
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A beginner or quiet advanced won't feel much difference only if it has more or less power but can't judge about lift and hangtime that much.But waterstart for sure.
Very important are boards, because here you can feel big differences. Had the Brunotti 2faced and never had a goodvday, thought I'm too stupid for TT's.Then tried a Dinnertray and immediately had fun. Now boards improved more and beginners learn on smaller than 160 TT's and get going immediately.
(damn, why did I had to learn on a directional.... :sad: )

Toby


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 1:57 pm 
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Dont forget that companies need to sell kites to get the money to continue with the R&D (and more). So, if you could, be happy, get your brand new kite.
I probbably dont ride better on a 2003 kite, but I like it. Kites are like toys, arent they?
There IS a BIG difference between a AR5 and a X2. This is development. Is good for everybody.

PD: Word handtime record: Airblast 8.4 (01 5 battens)
For me, Bruno leads the pack. Airblasts set the way (fast, great range, high AR, wide wing tips, more battens to support the structure).
I want to see the 2003 Skoops.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 2:12 pm 
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well - you surely get faster when you drive a ferrari, but a michael schuhmacher'll be even faster having the slower car.

huge airs are come from rider AND kite skills.

look at the pictures of lou or elliot going big
with old 2-line kites.

surely none of the average riders take their kites to the limit, but a rider will get bigger airs using kites with more depower and more lift.

the difference between a 2001 kite and a 2002 kite was much bigger than the difference between a 2002 and a 2003 kite (the models that can be seen so far).

don't focus on material too much, work on your skills, too!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 3:27 pm 
What about faster turning for the 2003 slingshots? Hype? or real?

J


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 3:34 pm 
Quote:
On 2002-10-07 09:24, Mr Jo Macdonald wrote:
So buying this years fuel or rhino is sortof like buying last years X2 or supertype.

Slingshot are pretty honest with their windranges and they're saying the new kites have the same range as the old ones which were 1 m2 smaller.
Cynical old Jo



For starters, bad bad bad Jo Mac for even comparing an X2 to a new Fuel! The new Fuel may be comparable with it's flight characteristics, but it's a far cry from being the same as buying an X2. If I were to compare it to the Naish X2, I'd say the Fuel flies similar to the X2 but is built way stronger, has much more re-inforcements, and maybe even better quality ingredients. More differences would be like;
Slingshot is a company that cares about their riders, their customers, their dealers and everyone involved. Can't say the same for some of the others.
Another thing that comes to mind is that the Slingshots make use of the very essential ingredient Mark Cloth to reinforce their ripstop. Can't say the same about others.
Or, how about the fact that Slingshot offers a 1 year warranty on their products, kites included. How long is Naish's warranty on their kites down to these days? 3 months? What about others? What's the normal warrannty length these days for kites?
Honesty; I've never dealt with a company that has as good business sense, good business ethics, and is as honest and sincere in all of their undertakings as Slingshot has been for me.
Crew; To meet the entire Slingshot crew is an honor and very pleasurable experience in itself. From President, to kite designers, to PR guys, to board shapers, to sales and tech reps, even investors, these are a wonderful bunch of guys to know, to hang with, to work with and to be around. Fairly small but very tight circle. I honestly wish we could say the same about all the others. It would sure make the kiting industry much more pleasurable than it has been known to be in the past. For the record, No, I'm not saying all kite guys are dicks, most kite companies have some very nice people working for them, just not normally the entire crew. I don't think I've ever met a friendlier, nicer guy to be around than Kent Marinkovic over at Cabrinha. I find that even just Kent's presence is enjoyable.
How about the fact that the new Fuel can be configured to be a front line or back line flier? Is the X2 like this as well?
How about all of those wonderful seams that Naish claims makes the kites stronger? Doesn't the X2 have something like 114 panels in it giving it an extra 40 or so seams? Is the seams NOT the weakpoint on the X2's? I can't say too much from first hand experience with them, but I see and hear that they fail pretty often, and more so when they find themselves in the surf. Is that true?

Kitesurf is eevolving, just like paragliding did as Marina pointed out. To think that kites aren't still evolving and charging ahead into the future with better effeciency and performance in only misleading yourself. I wish I could say that the hype side of it doesn't exist, but I can't because it does, but you need to learn to look at the hype, past the hype, through the hype and make your own judgement, because alot of what appears to be just hype is actually true and some of it is just that, hype. While I will agree that the playing field has leveled off quite a bit lately, I still feel that their is alot to be discovered and yet to be developed in the world of LEI kites. Yes, you can make any of the older kites work great for you, and you even still see one from time to time in competitions, but if you want the latest technology and performance then you want the newest kites.

Of course all of the above is just one man's opinion and my 2 cents worth on the subject.

Johnny


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 3:38 pm 
Just seen the post above mine...it wasn't there when I posted. The turning speed of the new Fuel is 100% real. NO HYPE there! Ever fly a Takoon? The way the new Fuel turns, even the large ones, reminds me of flying a Takoon in turning speed. I fly the 2003 17m Fuel on an 18 inch bar and it turns great even in light winds. I know this sounds great, almost too good to be true, and thus makes this appear a helluvalot like hype, but trust me, you will see when you fly one. NO HYPE in that at all!

Johnny


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 3:45 pm 
Thanks Johnny, have ya flown the 19 yet? looking for a LIGHT winder that can still turn.

J


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:15 pm 
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No sir, can't say that I have. I would imagine that it is more of a big guys light wind kite than just a lightwind kite. The 17 is the lightwind kite for me. Last week, I let someone demo my 15, and the wind dropped and they dropped the kite in the water. I didn't wanna put it away wet, so I relaunched it and flew it for a bit to dry it. The winds were just enough to keep a kite in the air...their were no other kites in the air at the time. Out of boredom, I grabbed the Manta board(because of how floaty it is) and decided to do a tack or two to dry the kite, and expect to come back to the beach downwind and have to walk back. Well, to my surprise as well as everyone elses that was present, I was staying at wind in 6-7 knots and going upwind when it would really start honking and hit 8-9 knots. :smile: 6 or 8 tacks later, dry kite, NO walk of shame back. The guys on the shore still had a windmeter in hand to show me the readings on it as they were in awe themselves. Their(the riders on shore) take on it was that I was staying at wind in the lighter of it and going upwind when it hit 8. I still had a larger kite, the 17m Fuel laying on the beach I could have been flying! I know I know...sounds like more hype, but I have several witnesses.

However, just because I feel that the 17 is the lightwind machine for me, doesn't mean that I wont have the 19. I have one on the way now. I'll let ya's know how it flies when I get it. But if it's anything at all like the 15 and 17 Fuels....OHHH LOOK OUT!

Johnny


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