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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 1:46 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: Long Island
Can someone create a list of the different kite companies based on how they size their kites. For example, Wipika kites are sized differently than Naish kites...ect. I would just like to see which companies use the naish sizing and which use the wipika sizing. Also, is there a good way to convert between the two sizings?

Thanks,
Rob


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 2:01 am 
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Location: Australia
G'Day, good luck on this one, there are alot more sizing methods out there than just the naish and wipika methods!

I'll start with what I THINK I know... others can add/correct as is needed.

Naish - ARX, AERO1 - flat sizing.
Naish - X2, AeroII? - Flat + .5sqm
Slingshot - Flat + .5?sqm
FlexiFoil, North, FONE, Gaastra - Flat sizing.
Airush - look for their 'flat' numbers not model numbers - there model numbers in 2002 didn't really have any logic.
Wipika, Takoon, Cabrinah - wipika method (flat / 1.36?)

Can't think of any others at the moment...
It's a big nightmare - find what brand of kites you'd like to fly and work out the characteristics of the kites from there - thats the best way IMO...

Callum


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 2:57 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: Vancouver, Canada. rides Naish,Ozone,North, Spotz,Aguera
Basically almost all major companies are using flat sizing (Cabrinha will switch entirely to it for 2003). The last two companies which use the old projected sizing are Wipika and Takoon. And I am unsure about Airush.

There is no easy way to convert projected to flat sizing since the famous 1.36 ratio is only good for large kites. (With small kites the ratio is closer to 1.1)

Flat sizing is not exact and we commonly see variations of 10%. This may seem inaccurate, but different kites have different amounts of power anyway for a given size, so it is probably accurate enough.

Chris G


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 8:57 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: The Netherlands
To compare sizes objective, take the most important measurements of your kite and put it in this designtool: http://www.wirelessdatasys.com/dea/kites/surfplan/

Also you can play with sizes, AR's etc, you'll see the ratio flat/effective doesn't change that much.

Have fun, Henry

PS, a ratio of 1.1 can't be attained with a sled-kite, in that case, the sled would be as flat as a bridled foil...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 9:45 am 
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he didn't say it could, he said the ratio of given size to real size was going to be closer to 1.1


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 10:59 am 
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Location: Denmark
Okay - here we go again...

There are the two fundamental sizing methods only:

1. Size, like specified in the patent.
Size = flat area / 1.36

2. Flat area.

Except for Airush who did a mistake by trying to set an "equivalent size for the kite power" on their sizing 2002, so they have no system in their sizing what-so-ever (and no patent license either - still in court), EVERYONE uses these sizings.
Then some brands can't measure their kites correctly - so they can be slightly bigger or smaller than printed - but there are ONLY these 2 size systems !

Real projected area has only been used once - on the 2000 Naish AR5, the projected area = true shadow area, was written in small prints under the surface area.
But apart from that very model - true projected or shadow area is not used.

-----------------
"Sizing" used by:
Wipika, Takoon, Cabrinha and Naish

"Flat area" used by:
North, Naish, Wipika, Takoon, Gastra, RRD, Liquid Force, F-ONE, Peter Lynn, Slingshot
-----------------

Note that Naish, Wipika and Takoon is listed under both - because they write both sizes on their kites (2001 and 2002).
Very clever, and very easy for us "users".

Now for the GOOD news !

In 2003 Wipika, Takoon, Cabrinha and Airush has changed their sizing to Flat Area - so now all kites, from all brands, are sized exactly the same way.
Yahoooooooo, at last !!!


This goes for inflatables.
--------------------------

I don't know about all foil brands, but Flysurfer are using flat area, and have the true shadow area shown too.
This makes sense.
_________________
Kindly - Peter Frank

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Peter_Frank on 2002-11-11 11:00 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Peter_Frank on 2002-11-11 11:58 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 11:08 am 
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thx Peter for the detailed info.

One thing though: Takoon wrote also both sizes on their bags. I don't know if they did this from the beginning of their 2002 production, but the since summer they displayed it for sure.

Toby


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: Antigua & Barbuda
Hey Guys:

There still seems to be a discrpency with the Wipika sizing system as far I can tell.

We had a visiting rider roll out his Wipika 9.0/12.2 which looked way smaller than our Cabrinha 9.4/12.8. Both 2002 models. We laid the kites on top of each other and the Wipika was only 3/4's the size (approx 25% smaller by eye).

Other Wipikas I have looked at also appear to be much smaller than their progected/surface area numbers suggest.

Otherwise other kite brands appear pretty similar among both size types.

Nik


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