*


All times are UTC + 1 hour



Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2002 10:41 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 393
Hello every body

I have Mastair 12, I have bought it second hand. I have finished my first ground exercises, no water yet. It is my first foil and it is pretty different from a tube and i have following problems:

Wind condition 6-13 knts air temp 10°C

1. When i launch (foil powerzone start)
it pulls very hard so i must run downwind almost line lenght. Is this normal? (I have depower loop hooked on one winder just for my good feeling - to be unhooked)

2. And second bigger prob. I cant hook.
I know it looks like stupid problem but for me it is.

When i start, i hold the depower loop on one side of bar with my thumb (it is very difficult because it pulls very hard into the bar) and when the kite is on zenit, i drop the loop - it is pulled into to bar = full power and i simply havent enough power and courage to hook on. Kite often lifts me above ground, my wheight is 85 Kg. The kite has a pressureless depower system.

So any tip how to hook on? But i dont want to launch hooked.

Thanks


{ SHARE_ON_FACEBOOK } { SHARE_ON_TWITTER } { SHARE_ON_ORKUT } { SHARE_ON_DIGG } { SHARE_ON_MYSPACE } { SHARE_ON_DELICIOUS }
Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2002 11:02 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 2185
Location: Spain/Italy
Hi Tomtom,
I'm definately not an expert and i'm sure Simon or marc or some of the other foilers can give you some more tips but I would say get used to the kite with 30m lines in 6-10 knots first, 10 -15 is sort of the top end and as you've noticed the kite is very powerful as soon as the wind picks up.

If the wind is 10 or above you can start the kite from the side of the window and it'll pull less
As for you first question, no it isn't normal to be pulled so far downwind, the kite should pull you a max of I'd say 10m.
Get it to the edge of the window a soon as it's full enough to be stable.
if the kite is overpowered you can make another knot about 3 cm further down the depower and shorten the middle line, the kite should be less powered and more stable like this but will tend to luff more in very light wind.
I use two knots on mine for light and stonger wind. remember that if you make another knot lower this will also shorten the top knot by a few cms.
I know what you mean about not wanting to hook in but flying the foil is a lot about powering up to turn it and depowering to let it fly, so try it in under 10 knots

2nd question,
I hold the depower under my hand not with my thumb, this way I can take the loop off the bar and hook it to the harness. Also when you get a better feel for the kite you'll notice it tends to pull less also when it's powered up depending on where and how it's flying (it flies slower when powered up), edge of the window is an obvious place for example. Wait for it to pull less then hook in.
Or in stronger wind if you're on a bigger open beach launnhing hooked in shouldn't be a problem.

My advice is to practice in 6-8 knots on land, it's a powerfull high performance kite and flying it is a bit different from flying leis but once you get the hang of it you'll love it.
A good way of preinflating is through the butt plug, it'll fill up while you sort out the lines.
have fun
Jo

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr Jo Macdonald on 2002-11-25 23:04 ]</font>


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2002 11:49 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 393
Thank you very much Jo i try it. I thing my kite has about 1,5 year old and maybe center line is longer so i try different knot

Thanks a lot


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2002 11:53 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 8737
i always used to get pulled pretty much a full line legth when launching downwind on my 12 mast air, until i started doing this.

instead of digging your heels into the sand to stop yourself being dragged. do the opposite. digging your heels in loads up the lines and increases drag.

get the lines tight, hook into the depower, go on its safe, and step back and depower as soon as the kite rises walk towards the kite, this lowers the line tension, lowers the pull and slows down the kites rate of ascent. you'll walk as far, but it will all be under control.

think of it another way if you let someone hold onto you and then release you when the kite is half up you'll take off like a rocket. this is basicaly what you are doing by digging in.

hooking in might seem scary but it is safer. if you only have the old none release chicken loop, email armin and tell him that you are stuggling launching the kite and he'll mail you a new chicken loop out, i'm sure, flysurfer really do care about their riders, ask anyone. try your dealer, they migth have replaced chicken loops of the warrior depowers...


i would also consider moving the knot down a couple of cm to the bar, extra depower is good for launching and actually gives you a bit more upwind ability as well, as you can oversheet the mastairs quite a bit, safely. just remember not to use this full depower directly overhead as they can luff set up like this without the drag of aparent wind generated from moving sailing.


hooking in.

this is really a matter of arm strength, but there is technique to help.

form the unhooked position, hands on either side of the bar, chicken loop pulled by the kite into the bar.

slide both hands into the middle of the bar. slide one hand so it straddles the depower in the middle of the bar, sink to your knees. take one hand off the bar and grab the chicken loop and then as you stand up pull both hands down and hook in.

holding the middle of the bar like this means you are pulling the kite down as well as the depower, reducing the pull on the depower as you stand up, the difference between kneeling and standing up should give you the movement and slack you need to hook in.


but defo' get a qr chicken loop, if you feel safer you'll be prepared to try harder.


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 8:30 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 2185
Location: Spain/Italy
Hi Tomtom,
Another way i hook in after launching unhooked holding the depower on the bar is, as soon as the kite puls less pull the bar down and to one side so the chicken loop on the bar is near the harness, hook in without letting go of the depower.

This is an old thread on launching the mastair:
http://www.kiteforum.com/phpBB/viewtopi ... 44&forum=1

You can use the search function looking for "Mastair" to find other stuff

More good tips here:
http://www.flysurfer.de/index-eng.htm
http://members.iinet.net.au/~ianyoung/FS_tips.html
Once you get the hang of it get out there on the water, it's a great kite and you won't believe how much it pulls in very little wind with a wide board.
Great with 40m lines for the bottom end too.

Feel free to ask any other questions
Jo


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr Jo Macdonald on 2002-11-26 10:36 ]</font>


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 12:54 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 1949
Location: Hamburg, Germany
tomtom,

a friend of mine rigged his flysurfer (he launched unhooked, too) with an adjuster-system like the wipikas have.
so he depowered the kite with the adjuster, pulled it up, hooked in and then powered it by releasing the adjuster (and depowering on the chickenloop the same time).
if you got enough wind, try to prefill the kite as good as possible and lanch it not directly downwind, but about 45° and steer it to the edge of the window as soon as it's steerable.
i know guys that used electric pumps in very powered up conditions to start their kites in the tube-way .....


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:56 pm 
Launching straight down wind hooked in. Yeah, I would try this in 10 mph and feel relatively safe. But in stronger wind.....you guys scare me. I know that you all are experienced, but IMO you are holding a ticking time bomb. A frind of mine who flys arcs and launches directly down wind launched in strong wind for the first time. The wind was somewhat gusty also. He lost his footing and was drug at least 3 line lengths. He almost went out of sight down the beach. Even so, he flew the kite straight up without panicking. Because of his forward speed, the line tension was reduced somewhat and the kite sort of stayed at a 45 degree angle for a moment, but still had enough power to drag him at very high speed. Nothing down wind for him to have impacted - luckily. Afterward he said he was in control and ready to release his shackel if necessary. I'm thinking, yeah right! If there is enough wind to go kitesurfing, I will never launch down wind. And I will never launch hooked in - in any wind. Have any of you ever had this scenario happen where you get pulled / drug much more than 1 line length down wind?


Top
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 5:04 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 2185
Location: Spain/Italy
Launching from the side of the window is definately best in stronger stuff or use another kite. These are kites for lightwind, they produce a lot of power in very little wind and have become famous for exactly that so you should respect the power potential.
Only time I've been dragged by the mastair was in 8-11 while trimming the kite. it was trimmed wrong and diving through the power zone. It lofted me more horizontally than vertically but I unhooked while flying through the air holding the bar with both hands still trying to control the crazy kite and letting go of the bar so the leash depowered the kite just before it crashed and I touched down.
I'd stopped using a snap shackle at the time.
Jo


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 6:38 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 8737
don't forget that the 12 mast air is a beast, i wouldn't even put mine up over about 15-16mph because of my weight.

and if you are a real novice then treat it with respect, but i'm definately in favour of both hands on the bar, and the use of a quick release chicken loop, on this kite its a must.

if you launch it under inflated you could get dragged for a considerable distance. you really want about a third of the kite looking perky and inflated. cut the mesh off the vents to speed up inflation by about 50% it affects nothing else.


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 6:42 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 393
First apologize my bad english.

O.K. guys stop im scary enough! But thank you for all. Today i try yours way in ca 6-9 knts and it was without any problem i just hold depower loop with my hand on bar (i also make second knot to short depower line) make decent tug on bar and gently walk towards the kite. This way kite pull way weaker so i was pull downwind only ca 10m. When was kite on zenit i sink to my knee and make quick stand to slack lines and easy hook on. Today i have pleasure to only fly mastair on land. I fly it about 2 hours and make one phone call with kite up at zenit:-). Near impossible with my tube because we have pretty gusty wind. (I live in Slovakia near Austria - not Slovenia) I also find system to preinflate kite very quick in very light wind without asistent. Im sure that is old for you. I fix safety line to something solid (my car) unroll lines unfold kite.
Then tense lines with kite so lines and bridle hold kite shape and i wait about 30 sec in this position kite so it is partialy inflated. Then i hold both pullys under the bridle and make several good tugs on they so kite flys over me and it is fully inflated and ready to fly with bar. This way is much quicker like only wait for wind to fill kite. It take ca half minute or less.

I have only problem with flying near ground on edge(like edge launch or asisted landing). The kite often overfly me and colaps. Any tips? Was wind to weak to fly on edge near ground?


One more time - thanks for all

Tomas


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], bladebarry, zob and 21 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group