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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 6:53 pm 
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from - Kite Shuts Down Train......

".....and the matter should now be settled amicably between the respective insurance companies… "

i thought insurance would start going up but GOOD news maybe,

i talked to Mel at the AKA today and i asked how many insurance claims were submitted last year.

Answer 0 NONE!
Last 2 years, only one claim, in 2001, a guy landed on a pickup truck and the truck owner filed a claim.

Please, were do you guys get your liability insurance?

xid


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 7:12 pm 
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RE: question about paragliding...

yes it went through similar growing pains in the beginning, and again when many pilots had to have the dhv-3/4 rated advanced wings ("death blades") which really should only be used by comp and not recreational pilots. I would think that snowboarding (binding release systems), skydiving (safety features, glide characteristics), hangliding (yahoos jumping off mountains or bunny hills with no instruction, old equipment) and the majority of "extreme" non mainstream sports also had many accidents in the beginning until (1) formal instruction and training programs were established (2) equipment became more safety oriented giving people high performance benefits with "low" performance charactersitics

I don't want kitesurfing to become a highly regulated sport but for safety to self and others, site preservation and liability reasons, I think it is good that some license/formal organization needs to be established or the various governing bodies will make unfavorable decisions for us.

Marina
Kitexcite


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 9:53 pm 
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Location: AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND
People just have to get rid of their ego...

Far too many people ride without leashes and far too many people over estimate their skill level....

It'll be very interesting to see how the summer season here in NZ goes with the popular beaches etc.... if we have any incidents involving kitesurfing and swimmers etc.

BLOWN AWAY


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: Dublin, Ireland
Over in Ireland and the UK we get Insurance from http://www.sportscoverdirect.com we also get coverd for 2 other spoets. e.g snowboarding. its only 40 euro.
Having aided a college start the first kitesurf club in Ireland. I urge on the side of caution any one setting up a club/assocation as the whole liability thing gets a bit messy. We got off due to the fact that the college was willing to take any liability. Alos for those of you who think that disclamiers work. They have no legal binding (well in Ireland anyway) as you cant take away an consituntional right.
All the best,
Kitedude


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 10:48 pm 
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thanks, Kitedude..
good info.
-xid


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:39 pm 
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Location: World (KF Admin)
kitedude, the link seem to be incorrect.
can you repost it, pls?

also,is it for Irish citizen only or can anyone get that insurance?

Greets
Toby


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2002 12:04 am 
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interesting question for your conscience :

DO WE WANT TO REDUCE DEATHS or AVOID REGULATING THE SPORT ?

The two are mutually exclusive.
It is human nature to go beyond our limits if the equipment allows : look at cars, the current speed limits are designed for our safety, if they were 'non enforcable' everyone would drive around like maniacs, we all know it, the cars allow us to do it, and most people are too dumb to realise the consequence of their excessive speed would result in death (themselves or others).

All the safety advice we give will fall on mainly deaf ears and deaths will continue to rise in this sport. (anyone reading this will feel an exception...you are the exception....you are reading this thread for safety info), I'm talking about the ones who skip this thread because it doesn't interest them or don't read a forum at all.

Regulate and death rate will slow.

As for me : don't regulate, let the "darwin award" candidates strut their stuff, we can all giggle about it reading the darwin site.
(probably from the permanent comfort of our armchairs)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2002 12:33 am 
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Location: PASA Level III Instructor FL- OBX - MI - the world
Yes, the Darwin Awards are humorus, but death in reality isn't pleasant, especially when its happening to our bros out there, even some of the best kitesurfers!!! who may have been victims of some unforeseen/uncontrollable forces.

This is definitely going to be a difficult issue to sort out properly. Regulation takes a lot of fun out of things and could eliminate a lot of people from even trying the sport. But to some degree a kite is like a loaded gun in the hands of the inexperienced or irresponsible, or as a result of some related equipment failure, pilot error, etc.

Self policing is definitely important...the more experienced should step in whenever appropriate to help avoid an accident.

Certification...maybe a good idea too, but how to do it? Do you have to have a letter from a school/instructor before you buy a kite?? I would have gone along with that idea. But then there is the used kite market...so that idea might ot work.

What about a tag with your certifiate? Then we can all police each other a little bit. If we see another kiter without a tag we ask him to pack it up.

I am sure that lots of people will ague about these concepts, but I think we should all be brainstorming and come up with some good ideas that make sense , that are easy to swallow, affordable, and effective in making sure we all know the safety issues, self rescue, proper use of equipment, etc. I certainly do not pretend to have all the ideas, or even good ones.

How about if someone starts a panel on this and compiles all the good ideas? Maybe within the next month or two we can all adopt them and move the sport in a safe direction. I would pesonally be willing to spend at least $50/year to support the organization and help pay for the certificates, tags, promotion, maybe some insurance?? And I would be willing to bet that the manufactureres and retailers would be willing to fund/sponsor this effort as well. Maybe we pool the kite manufacturers and hire an indpendent agent to put it together.

Any other suggestions??????


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2002 12:46 am 
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I believe our local area has just had a "kite marshal" budget approved from the local council, don't know anything about it, but it should be a step in the right direction


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:33 am 
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Location: AUCKLAND, NEW ZEALAND
I'm with the Captain on this one...

I'm assuming the Darwin Award being "Let the idiots kill themselves and hopefully there will be none left to kill us :smile: "

As for the experts getting themselves killed... it depends on how they did it. If they are not following the right saftey procedures and they were being Macho... I don't really want to be on the same pond as them anyway.

But if it was because a trick went horribly wrong... that could happen to any of us and comes with the territory...

Remember kitesurfing IS an extreme sport and injuries are gonna occur...

BLOWN AWAY


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