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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:21 am 
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Oh boy. Now you're just being silly children. I know why you took so mANY kick boxing lessons....cause you debating skills suck. HA. Just kidding but i had to say that. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:34 am 
Jim Drake, one of the "fathers" of windsurfing, reckons we well be flying rigid or semi-rigid wings in the future. He said this on the Kiteflight DVD.

So this debate might be irrelevant in 3-10 years time; we might find that the best kite to fly/ride looks like a rigid aeroplane wing.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:08 am 
The following is transcribed from SQ5..., one of the foil lovers, in the topic on flysurfers:

"you just have to handle them correctly, fast across the window, power up on the down stroke don't let them stall at the bottom edge of the first power stroke depower them to up turn them and leave them high."

There's your answer as to why pros and normal people shouldn't use ram airs.

To fly one you need to power up on the down stroke, be careful not to stall at the bottom edge of the first power, stroke, you've depowered them and left them high.

ie You need a degree in rocket science to (1) understand these directions and (2) implement them.

also, by the time you've upstroke depowered down stroke stalled and been left high, you're so mentally and physically exhausted you give up and go home.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:21 am 
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well done anonymous you've quoted me correctly trying to simplify the process of flying the kite in conditions it was not designed for but will still fly in, for a novice sailor.

that proves your point.

comp paragliders are less stable and require more rider input than dvh 1 gliders to fly safely and effectively. but guess what the comp glider has the best measurable performance.


cant we just start this thread again and i'll admit that foils 'can' have better upwind ability, better glide ratio and the better designs have the best water relaunchability if you admit leis are better in gusty winds, more stable when jumping and more forgiving of rider mistakes and therefore better for freestyle comps.

does that sound fair.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:18 am 
???


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 11:45 am 
Tubes are aerodynamic katastrophe.... would like to see one compared to a foil in wind channels... why dont the paragliders use tube style gliders... .. the future will be foils believe it or not...

Armin Harich does a great Job out there and paraglider manufacturers come up with great kites in the future...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:35 pm 
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Is the point of this thread to see if it can make a 10,000 visits? or 20 pages??

Think I will have a coffee in stead of tea !!! makes as much sense !!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: macca on 2003-01-29 12:36 ]</font>


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:56 pm 
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20 pages now?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 12:59 pm 
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Quote:
On 2003-01-29 11:45, Anonymous wrote:
Tubes are aerodynamic katastrophe.... would like to see one compared to a foil in wind channels... why dont the paragliders use tube style gliders... .. the future will be foils believe it or not...

Armin Harich does a great Job out there and paraglider manufacturers come up with great kites in the future...


This is a common misconception !

I will not defend neither foils nor LEI's, but LEI's are extremely well performing aerodynamically.

And you cant compare to a paraglider - which has to be soft for other practical reasons.

If you take an older style hangglider, with a thick round front aluminium pipe as LE, and single skin - it will still outperform most paragliders in terms of L/D and sink speed.

And in windsurfing, the double surface has so little, or no advantage, and so many drawbacks, that it is not used any more (it was in the past).

And there are other aerodynamic advantages of the LEI shape for kitesurfing, which does not exist in paragliding terms.

But it is like comparing apples to oranges...

The foil is excellent aerodynamically, but the LEI is excellent performing too.

These are simple facts, and the reason why there is so much nagging and biting and hardly any REAL discussion now.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2003 1:09 pm 
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I guess it is about making a new record here!

At least some posts contain value information, like the ones from Peter Frank.

But hasn't already everything been said?
I guess that's why some of you started bashing.... :wink:

Sometimes it is better to be quiet rather than talking...

Toby


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