V O T E : Use of Side Release Snap Shackles

[ccat]

Swancvs gimme five!
CABs WIPs and perhaps CAUTION look like powerlock and safety simply works there.
there is not a single KS specific shackle
on the market yet or tell me one.
Shackle-Samurai can talk shackles in the smallest detail it only ends up sneered at over mornin coffee cup by the real players
SS`s try to come up with sth that works in the hardest possible shit and stop mixin up inda kidds minds


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ccat on 2003-01-24 13:12 ]</font>

[Guest]

One also needs to take care with the Wichard. I once had the pull release cord clipped through into the shackle when I rigged up - very easy to do!!. Result - the shackle could not be opened! Luckily not very windy and I was able to open the shackle with my finger nail.

Even the Wichard is not fool proof!!

[Air Vermont]

I use the 2673, attached tothe top of a REactor Spreader Bar. Instead of a release ring, I use a side release shackel, like the one warned about here. That way I have 2 releases in a row. I almost always self land in onshore conditions by taking the kite briefly to zenith and pulling the side pin release. THere isn't much load and it releases easily. However, I have done lots of tests with shackles and the side pins do become harder to release under higher loads. If the split ring is not welded, you can end up with the ring failing and no release mechanism. Very bad.

The 2673 is an excellent system. Be aware that just attaching a ball to the release line, supplied with the shackle is a recipe for unintentional release, when it is hit hard by water, your hand, or during spins. There are a number of excellent mods which take care of this. Also be aware that the 2673 does not spin great under load. The torsional force of a twisted line (after spins) is not enough to auto-untwist. It is simple to reach down and rotate it by hand. I have just purchased a ball bearing swivel, designed for sailboat roller furling to see if this will spin easily enough. I have noticed Mel posting on this forum now. He is a total guru on this stuff. HE has some files on the Yahoo Groups forum which show great examples. Take this stuff real seriously.

Gary (Currently 10 below zero f. here)

[Rv]

I vote:

<IMG SRC= "http://www.force4.btinternet.co.uk/kite ... hackle.JPG">

[Wetstuff]

It's seems odd when a topic as primary as "your safety" still remains in contention?! I love the one; "I only use it one-out-of-50-times kinda of response". Then...you don't need helmet, boots or gloves on your motocross bike either!

Since I start each session hooked in...QR a kite to change to another...and at the end of the day - QR a final time...and don't even use a spreader bar. I then feel, I have a full appreciation of what works and what dont'. Those Ronstans - don't. (I bought them because I was cheap.)

I got a nice, new Wipi chicken loop with adjuster to see if the QR loop would be better - NOPE. Qualifier: if all you do is hook into a spreader bar..this may be fine, but don't expect to pull the cord and then put it back together in the water. I can release and then re-attach easily with my Wichard.

......and don't have two or three systems. Jeezes? How many miliseconds do you have to react?! Try and get a multi-release sequence down as second nature... How long you going to pull on #1 before you go on to #2? How about having ONE that really works - and knowing where it is as second nature?!

These work for me as long as I rinse them before I connect in.

One other thing I do for mine: weld it so it stays in position. I don't want to have to look for the frickin' release line!

You guys spend endless hours on X2 vs Scoop and pity little time thinking about the people who don't go home anymore who were last attached to a kite.

jim









<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wetstuff on 2003-01-24 14:46 ]</font>

[kitester]

Ok. I have been kitesurfing about a year and a half. I still dont understand why people use a shakle of any type. None of the 25 or so regular people on our beach use them. I have one friend at another beach who does. The regular loop has alwaws been good enough for me. On those few occasions when you get lofted or dragged hard I dont think you would have time to activate a shakle hooked to the depower lines anyway. We had an incident here where a guy was loffted and dropped on the beach. How do you opperate a shakle or any device when your unconscious? A loop for deowering any sheeting system is a nessesity but, I dont even like the idea of having a piece of tubing to hold it in place. When I find that the loop wants to fall out( in light conditions) I just put my thumb on the depower line to hold tension at the bar till the kite generates enough power to hold it. I have had it come loose a few times on a bad landings but, I just hang on, hook in and drag back to the board. I think being shacled in is about as unwise as riding without a leash. Save the money. Use what the manufactures system comes with. As systems improve, quick release loops will be more common. My new Flysurfer bar and line set came with a QR loop and a QR leash. I have not tested them under load yet, but they look easy operate. Ride with a leash and work on kite skills that will eliminate the need (desire) for a shakle. My .02 and my vote...dont shakle.

Paul

[Rv]

We use shackles because you cannot unhook from a chicken loop when someone elses loose kite flys into yours, they both power up and drag you down the beach, into immobile objects, resulting in your death (Silke Gorldt, R.I.P).

With a shackle, however, you can release when a launching problem puts your kite into a death spin, dragging you towards some powerlines (Chris Bull) although your kite will still take out all power to Hayling Island.

[RickI]

Hello Paul,

You raise a number of valid points and concerns. An overwhelming truth looms over all of this, today, kiteboarding can be dangerous. There are few clear cut, always works in all conditions and situations, options. That said, regarding just hooking in...

If you read through the KSI you will see a number of cases in which there was time to unhook. In fact the rider may have struggled hard to do so before that hard, fast impact. I went through this myself, at least twice. In these cases there often is time to release, if you have a mechanical release that will work. Big IF there, today, soon things will improve hopefully.

You are correct, in a number of other dragging and lofting scenarios there is NO TIME to react much less detach from your chicken loop.

What is the solution? What do you do if you drive off a cliff? Don't put yourself in that situation in the first place.

Ultimately, an automatic, 100 % reliable depowering device that doesn't currently exist is needed. For now, the best defenses we have against this ARE HAZARD AWARENESS AND AVOIDANCE. This comes with careful learning, training, experience building, use of safety gear, etc.

Will I every kiteboard again without a mechanical chicken loop release, no. I am hopeful that a good pin quick release will reliably provide this important function but it is early and performance of these new systems is still being reported. Will I try to launch unhooked and avoid attaching myself to chicken loop until well away from hard objects, going out and returning, in a ideal world, YES. The mechanical release is for improved chances of releasing while I am offshore and away from hard objects. If you are being dragged at speed you may not be able to unhook. Lots of guys haven't been able to. Of course if we never had placed ourselves into the critical situation in the first place, mechanical release function would not have been as vital a consideration.

What do you do if you drive off a cliff...

FKA, Inc.

transcribed by:
Rick Iossi




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RickI on 2003-01-24 15:45 ]</font>

[sq225917]

for those of you banging on about cabrinha bars in other threads, you might want to try the chicken loop release, that velcro is far too tenacious. seriosuly i reckon it holds almost 100 lbs before releasing once you have pulled the tab.

definately a release that works better when worn.

[chassan]

Please give us the details, such as:

- Type of activation (line/ball, etc.),
- Type of connection (snapped to a line loop, big ring, small ring, plastic tube, etc.),
- Failure mode (unable to activate, opened but stuck on ring/loop, etc.)

Thanks

Mel

[/quote]

I had exactly the same setup in the picture above (page 2) send by Paraflysurf and I conected the witchard directly to the harness.
Both times the witchard failed (unable to activate)was with the kite in the air, It just didn't release untill the kite fell down the water.