R E S U L T S : Use of Side Release Snap Shackles

[ccat]

http://www.pro-limit.nl/2002/displayite ... tem_id=235

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ccat on 2003-01-28 21:33 ]</font>

[kiteboarder@pacbell.net]

Rick I wrote:

Over half of the responding parties stated support for using a tip release snap shackle (TRS) such as a Wichard 2600 series...

I hereby register my vote that a bit more description accuracy may be required. The RELEASE is not at the tip of any snap shackle, only the PIVOT is (sometimes). So we have:

Side PIVOT Shackles (all Pin RELEASE*)
Tip PIVOT Shackles (either Line or Trigger RELEASE)

SP (bad)
TP, TR (bad**)
TP, LR (better)

*correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't remember ever seeing one that isn't.

**CAUTION: Not all tip PIVOT shackles (or even 2600 series) are created equal. The Wichard 2655 & 2657 are tip PIVOT but are TRIGGER RELEASE, & have been reported to catch on rings*** AND have much greater potential for jamming with sand since the area below the release lever is enclosed, unlike the 2673 (see my reply to gorgekiteboarder below).

*** although admittedly so has the 2673, but at least IT will release from a plain line loop of any size, so you don't even need to use a ring at all (I don't know if the same is true of the Wichard trigger release models).

I have been learning more about the accident that prompted the launching of this thread and the discussion of snap shackles in the first place. The rider was using a Wichard snap shackle but NOT a TIP RELEASE SHACKLE...

Yes, the Wichard side PIVOT shackles are a rather poor choice, even by comparison to others of that type, since they have unwelded split rings on the release pin.

AND: "gorgekiteboarder <gorgekiteboarder@y...>" wrote:

I used a Tylaska T8 (Tip release?) for almost a year early on.

Yes, the T8 is a tip PIVOT shackle.

After getting dragged a little bit on a sandy beach, the hole behind the trigger was jammed so full with sand that there was absolutely no way to release...

Once again, not all tip PIVOT shackles are created equal. Unlike trigger release shackles, the line release Wichard 2673 is open below the release lever, leaving nothing for sand to jam against.

Mel

[RickI]

Largely thanks to Mel's input, the summary portion of this thread has been modified. From Mel's points it would appear that the Wichard 2763 snap shackle may be one of the few designs available with reduced potential performance problems IN kiteboarding applications. After all none of these snap shackles were conceived with a kiteboarding application in mind.

Use of any form of connection, hooking in, snap shackling in or using pin quick releases NEAR hard objects increases risk while kiteboarding. At the same time, not using some RELIABLE form of mechanical attachment to the chicken loop has been shown to contribute to accidents against hard objects. Catch 22, to some degree.

Using the best, well maintained and tested RELIABLE mechanical connection away from hard objects seems to be indicated from the accident experience. Connecting near hard objects as opposed to experimenting with launching and landing "unhooked" comes down to individual choice. Hopefully this choice will be made on the basis of adequate information regarding the risks in either case.

FKA, Inc.

transcribed by;
Rick Iossi

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RickI on 2003-01-30 14:53 ]</font>

[Huwin69]

The Wichard 2673 is the only ONE which works. For me under a really bad situation !! (loaded with 2 kites power)
I had before the side pin release shackle but testing it i got the red ball and the swivel out of the pin and did not release the kite.

http://www.wichard.com/catalogue/catalo ... RENCE=2673

[anthonyd]

Rick,

I hate to say it but a sample group of 24 is not really representitive is it?

[EdDy_DiFfUsIvItY]

hi all. Sorry for my lack of communication on this thread, as you all know I am interested, but i have been away and so have not had the time to produce my promised spreadsheet which @ this rate will be ready next millenium.

I hasten to add that I have been using and testing the hell out of the almost invis spinning leash / release idea that Jo came up with some time ago.

Jo, do you still use it ? I have become so accustomed to it it is really a great thing. I've had to use it many times since last posting and it works every time.

Ricks work here has been great to show others that these SRS's are dangerous to hell and I still see many people not using a release at all, when asked why, they simply say that "if its going to happen there is nothing I can do anyway so why have one".

I seriously hope that this attitude does not prevail for much longer as the person who said this to me on my recent trip was then seen being dragged in 20 knots by a 12m AB towards some parasols before someone managed to grab her. Yes HER.

Just for the record - my vote is for the 2673/4(larger one)

[RickI]

hi all. Sorry for my lack of communication on this thread, as you all know I am interested, but i have been away and so have not had the time to produce my promised spreadsheet which @ this rate will be ready next millenium.

I hasten to add that I have been using and testing the hell out of the almost invis spinning leash / release idea that Jo came up with some time ago.

Jo, do you still use it ? I have become so accustomed to it it is really a great thing. I've had to use it many times since last posting and it works every time.

Ricks work here has been great to show others that these SRS's are dangerous to hell and I still see many people not using a release at all, when asked why, they simply say that "if its going to happen there is nothing I can do anyway so why have one".

I seriously hope that this attitude does not prevail for much longer as the person who said this to me on my recent trip was then seen being dragged in 20 knots by a 12m AB towards some parasols before someone managed to grab her. Yes HER.

Just for the record - my vote is for the 2673/4(larger one)

How does it go, ah ... "catcha 22", you no safe without no shackle and you maybe not a safe with a shackle. Was it Alan Arkin that said that?

I had high hopes for pin releases but the controversy appears to be building over release reliability under high loading. Hopefully, clear findings supporting or not supporting these simple devices will be available soon. For now one of the FEW mechanisms that seems to be weathering the reliability storm fairly well is the Wichard 2673/2674. As to side release shackles I hope EVERYONE appreciates the consensus of opinion about the poor applicability of this device as a kiteboarding quick release.

There is to be a brand new system released today or tomorrow that provides a totally new approach. Hope it is as much of a quantum leap forward as it appears to be. Safety should ideally get a much needed boost forward.

[tonycp]

I hasten to add that I have been using and testing the hell out of the almost invis spinning leash / release idea that Jo came up with some time ago.

Jo, do you still use it ? I have become so accustomed to it it is really a great thing. I've had to use it many times since last posting and it works every time.

Can you tell us what this is? how it works? point us to an old thread?

thx

tony

[EdDy_DiFfUsIvItY]

Sure, hang on . . .

phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=7357


look and read read well as it develops throughout the post.

[hawaiikiter]

got a little overpowered today. lost my board. no one on the beach to take me down cuz i had drifted. thinking "well i´ll just pull the QR". well my side-release-schackle of course didn´t release.

and this wasn´t even an emergency case. good power but not loads. and if i had been in panic it would have been even more impossible.

so what i did was hang myself up with my arms and unhook the chickenloop. worked, even if tough, but it´s not exactly something you could do in an emergency situation.

conclusion, sideschackels sux.

am i not right?

i´m definiteately going to change to a better one.

or is the problem not the schackle but the power? are there schackles that will always release immediately no matter how big the power is?