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the future is bright, the future is foil

forum for kitesurfers


the_lone_wolf
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Postby the_lone_wolf » Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:55 am

@LDT::true, mine are in the back of the car at th moment, who knows whats going on whilst we're not looking :o

@jakobjth::hehe, i know, i might or might not have been on the strongbow last night :roll: - i agree with what you're saying mind a few things - size for size PL turn faster than FS but... power for power in the larger sizes the PL drop off, when i flew my 13m P2 back to back with an 18m Phantom the phantom felt like a truck, having flwon them all in similar conditions i suspect even the 17m P2 would have humiliated it in turns, and the 17m pulls like no arc ever made. the only arcs thats got the larger sizes turning fast is the venom, which impressed me a lot in that respect, although it still lacks really light wind grunt - i haven't flown the XTC which is definately more like the venom than the P2 (mod AR etc) but that supposedly turns faster and much tighter than the P2.

The only injury i've ever sustaned kiteboarding was launching a G10, once it was in the air it was superb, but getting it there would send my pulse racing, it belonged to a friend so i only launched it myself about 5 times, however 3 of these it folded on launch and once reopened before i could safety it resulting in me getting dragged through rocks feet first, it was fully preinflated. i've also had scares launching other PL kites, i just can't trust launching a PL without a huge downwind area now - FS simply can't fold on launch in the same way, if they do it's never anything more than just a tip folding over until it inflates enough - it can side launch literally at the edge of the window and the kite will just rise off the ground and sit there with no power surge at all, even launching my 10m in winds pushing 25knts was a breeze, much much safer IMO

that said i know the arcs do have advantages, the older ones definately rule for stability compared to other kites of the same "era" - and (please don't think i'm trying to be condescending or anything) they have always been great for beginners or people who are progressing and crashing often cause they are so forgiving. the reason i switched to FS from my guerilla (still one of the best arcs ever IMO) was that i found myself always wanting more performance from the kite, i would jump and the lift would seem to go before it "should" have done, it's hard to explain here but basically the options were stick with PL and go phantom or go P2, and after flying the phantom it had to be P2, lots of people loved them but i hated the phantom, horses for courses i spose.

apologies to any other arcoholics i offended out there last night - peace :thumb:

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murdoc
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Postby murdoc » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:04 pm

Image

i doubt this is 8 kts.

Tone
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Postby Tone » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:11 pm

its 15.3 knots.

look closer.

the_lone_wolf
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Postby the_lone_wolf » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:15 pm

murdoc that pic was pretty much BS IMO - you can see the "1" in front of the "5.3 making it 15.3knts, which would be much more consistent with the white caps and height of the jump :thumb:

jakobjth
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Postby jakobjth » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:30 pm

Wolf: I agree mostly on your last post except from the launching part. Ok, the arcs are still not perfect in launching, sometimes my phantom can bowtie if it's gusty and then it's not so funny launching if you don't have a clear downwind area....however if you ask someone to hold up the downvind wing tip you'll have 100% launch success.
But I've also had problems side launching my fs v10 in strong winds (~11-12ms). One session the bridle lines get tangled under one wing tip and I lost control of the kite and it flew right into the powerzone. I was lucky because one person assited me and unother person went up to the kite and untangled the lines. Nowdays I always front launch it half inflated as I've found it's the best way. But if the wind is really hard it's quite scary to front launch...
So in strong winds I would say that tubes are still the most safe kites to launch (with assistant of course)... hmm I guess many people will be to happy to hear this :wink:
So I have to add that for landing arcs are the most safe kite to land. No matter if it's blowing 5ms or 20ms as the kite flags out in the air... :thumb:

jakobjth
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Postby jakobjth » Wed Apr 06, 2005 12:33 pm

Tone wrote:its 15.3 knots.

look closer.


that one is classic :D
but the blade sure got some power...

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murdoc
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Postby murdoc » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:20 pm

well, but this picture started the topic (if you go back to page 1 ;) )


i don't want to discuss advantages and disadvantages of foil kites.
at least, not again.
i only accept opinions of people that spent some fair time with both systems and rip (or at least, want to do so).


i've had some really good sessions with a psycho2 10 - but still fly tubekites.

jakobjth
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Postby jakobjth » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:37 pm

murdoc wrote:well, but this picture started the topic (if you go back to page 1 ;) )


i don't want to discuss advantages and disadvantages of foil kites.
at least, not again.
i only accept opinions of people that spent some fair time with both systems and rip (or at least, want to do so).


i've had some really good sessions with a psycho2 10 - but still fly tubekites.


yep, I think that too many people just flying one type of kites tend to forget the positive aspects of the other techs.
It's sad how many tube kiters never give the foil kites a chance, they will miss a lot of pleasure surfing. (of course same apply in the other direction, people just flying foils and missing the more agressive riding of the tube kites)...

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murdoc
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Postby murdoc » Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:45 pm

well, in germany we seem to have a larger population of flysurfer foils then elsewhere - could be because flysurfer's german.

but there surely is people riding really well (kiteloops and handlepasses) on them.
i felt the psycho2 and voodoo would turn through the kiteloop with less effort and a lot less leeward pull than any LEI i've ever used.

well, i think the new peter lynns and new flysurfers are quite good kites.
it depends on the style and taste of the rider to choose the right kite for him.
also, he would need to be openminded about new concepts and shouldn't mind ending a session by dragging in a giant tangled knot.

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Starsky
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Postby Starsky » Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:54 pm

TLW:

You may have had a nasty launch on a G10, but there are plenty of people who can tell the same story about launching any kind of kite. I have read a few post about dicey G10 launches and I think that was a major consideration when they designed the next gen.

The G10 was a huge performance breakthrough for PL and it tought them a soooo much. But there have been a few big strides in arc design since then!

Like any design things have changed a LOT commenting on the newer thicker stiffer arcs from the perspective of your G10 experience isn't exactly fair.

Not that I'm taking offence, Like you say horses for courses, but I have no trouble with relaunch on arcs either. I drop my kites a dozen times a season trying new things. Ive had one swim ever, it was in my rookie summer, and it was a comlete wind drop. No kite was relaunching that day.

Peace,

P.S. Selassie: grow up man!

Brent


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