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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:30 pm 
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fokiten wrote:
Back on topic:

RickI,

My clip on the board idea is nice is it not?

fokiten


No.

Have you ever tried "your" idea before? I have on and off for years and it has some problems.

Newer boards often don't have leash attachment points or even if they do, the attachment point may not stop the board from being pulled beneath the surface. So you are trying to sail in and your board is diving beneath the surface trying to anchor you in place. This is even worse using foot straps.

If you are trailing lines even with just the bar being dragged you can have problems with:

- tangling and potential cutting in going through surf,

- snagging your lines on the bottom followed by tangling, being pulled beneath the surface, etc.

- having a fast moving boat hit your lines causing cutting, trauma, etc.


There have already been incidents involving some of the above outcomes.
I have yet to see an easy answer to the problem of dealing with lines in well powered conditions with self rescue.

You wouldn't know that because you admit that you haven't done research.


Ranting and raving without some careful thought, personal experience or at least reviewing the experience of others will accomplish very little of practical use. It will entertain yourself and a few other bored individuals perhaps.

Conveying respect to harshly outspoken, vulgar but frequently wrong or poorly thought out opinions is a mystery.

If a fool yells loudly and often enough saying whatever, he deserves your respect?

This is an aspect of human nature that I have yet to understand.


Repeating, don't respond to my posts particularly with ill considered, often vulgar and idiotic comments and I will return the favor. I don't need a "safety" heckler, who does?


Last edited by RickI on Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 2:05 pm 
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RickI wrote:
fokiten wrote:
Back on topic:

RickI,

My clip on the board idea is nice is it not?

fokiten


No.

Have you ever tried "your" idea before? I have on and off for years and it has some problems.

Newer boards often don't have leash attachment points or even if they do, the attachment point may not stop the board from being pulled beneath the surface. So you are trying to sail in and your board is diving beneath the surface trying to anchor you in place. This is even worse using foot straps.

If you are trailing lines even with just the bar being dragged you can have problems with:

- tangling and potential cutting in going through surf,

- snagging your lines on the bottom followed by tangling, being pulled beneath the surface, etc.

- having a fast moving boat hit your lines causing cutting, trauma, etc.


There have already been incidents involving some of the above outcomes.
I have yet to see an easy answer to the problem of dealing with lines in well powered conditions with self rescue.

You wouldn't know that because you admit that you haven't done research.


Ranting and raving without some careful thought and personal experience or at least reviewing the experience of others will accomplish very little of practical use. It will entertain yourself and a few other bored individuals perhaps.

Conveying respect to harshly outspoken, vulgar but frequently wrong or poorly thought out opinions is a mystery. If a fool yells loudly and often enough, he deserves your respect? This is an aspect of human nature that I have yet to understand.


Repeating, don't respond to my posts particularly with ill considered, often vulgar and idiotic comments and I will return the favor.



The monkey makes him do it Rick, he cant help it, I've even invented a name for his obsessive paranoid rants - "rickpicking"

One thing he is good for though is taking the bait and keeping a safety topic like this at the top of the list!
Maybe Sven can make a new "Fokitens Kiting tips" complete with a pic of the offending monkey.
Woop ass kiting, LOLOLOLOL's
Schlock and awe LOLOLOL's


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:39 pm 
fokiten wrote:
Back on topic:

RickI,

My clip on the board idea is nice is it not?

fokiten


RickI wrote:
No.

Have you ever tried "your" idea before? I have on and off for years and it has some problems.


Yes it works great.
RickI wrote:

Newer boards often don't have leash attachment points or even if they do, the attachment point may not stop the board from being pulled beneath the surface. So you are trying to sail in and your board is diving beneath the surface trying to anchor you in place.


What the fuck does sailing your board have to do with getting to your kite?
RickI wrote:

This is even worse using foot straps.

If you are trailing lines even with just the bar being dragged you can have problems with:

- tangling and potential cutting in going through surf,

- snagging your lines on the bottom followed by tangling, being pulled beneath the surface, etc.

- having a fast moving boat hit your lines causing cutting, trauma, etc.



So keeping your lines from dragging on the bottom by having them held by the board results in? tangling?, cutting in the surf? and exposes you to fast moving boats? then?, Maybe you could get a ride? and if your at your kite prior to the surf how is that a bad thing?

RickI wrote:

There have already been incidents involving some of the above outcomes.


So your just speculating on the rest then?
nice

RickI wrote:

I have yet to see an easy answer to the problem of dealing with lines in well powered conditions with self rescue.


How about hooking the kite leash up to the board and just dragging in?
that way you are free of the whole mess if it gets nasty.

RickI wrote:

You wouldn't know that because you admit that you haven't done research.


Research and speculation folded together and presented as fact is your game.

I've saved my kite from a lee shore half a dozen times like this, never had a problem,

But Yeah, you squall kiters have some issues I'd never suggest climbing up the lines when it's powered.

RickI wrote:

I believe you have made
Ranting and raving without some careful thought, personal experience or at least reviewing the experience of others will accomplish very little of practical use. It will entertain yourself and a few other bored individuals perhaps.


Exposed you as a wishful thinker haven't I :wink:

RickI wrote:

Conveying respect to harshly outspoken, vulgar but frequently wrong or poorly thought out opinions is a mystery.

If a fool yells loudly and often enough saying whatever, he deserves your respect?
This is an aspect of human nature that I have yet to understand.


I believe there are more than a few things that are well beyond your grasp.



RickI wrote:

Repeating, don't respond to my posts particularly with ill considered, often vulgar and idiotic comments and I will return the favor. I don't need a "safety" heckler, who does?


Well Rick if your posts cannot stand up to scrutiny what good are they?

Take for example your low and go backtrack above:

You now say, low and go in gusty is dumb, low and go in light air is dumb, what dose that leave us?

How about steady nicley powered air

So like I say, if it's good steady air why in the world would you allow yourself to be compromized by a low ass kite?


It's like this Rick you just fail to make any sense at all most of the time

I reserve the right to question hair ball scemes et.al.

Sheez :-?
fokiten


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:46 pm 
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Location: Thailand-shop/school owner
RickI, Fo...
I guess you didn't understand what i meant, which is a pretty good example of what I meant ... :-?

words are supposed to say one thing and one thing only, but unfortunately, everyone has is own understanding of words or sentences.

therefore, RickI's long posts or Fo's short but very agressive posts can't be understood by everyone for what they are... thus the msg can't be delivered...

Tom183...
supporting RickI is nice of you, but if you don't upgrade your understanding of what everybody else says, you will end up like PMU... :(
it's not too late yet, you still can recover... :wink:


clear, short and factual msg, using precise adjectives and/or measures can help, but evasives meanings such as high or low do not mean anything...

keep on the good job both of you, keep me entertained, and if you can make anyone safer it's even better... :thumb:

PS: I'm not a native english speaker and therefore may have some problems to understand english or be understood when i try to communicate in this language


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:42 pm 
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So Tom, a newbe kiter is taking up the gospel. I find it so amusing how in this great sport as soon as someone learns to go upwind, they are qualified to be an instructor and preach the safety gospel.

Well, you know what they say, "those who can't do, teach" maybe in this case it's "preach"

Rick, Tom, you have so much to learn.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:46 pm 
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loeuftok wrote:
Tom183...
supporting RickI is nice of you, but if you don't upgrade your understanding of what everybody else says, you will end up like PMU...


I try, but Fo just hasn't been taking his medication lately... :)

Seriously though - I will try to be clearer in what I mean and not use over-complicated words. Speaking one language correctly is hard enough, and understanding a 2nd language is even harder.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:01 pm 
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DontKiteHere wrote:
So Tom, a newbe kiter is taking up the gospel. I find it so amusing how in this great sport as soon as someone learns to go upwind, they are qualified to be an instructor and preach the safety gospel.


What amazes me is that someone who has done so little research (Fo) believes THEY have the right to preach.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:02 pm 
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tom, tom tom...
decoding Fo is not more difficult than decoding RickI...
read and think about it...
take some time to get it in, analyse it :idea:
and then only post back...

you can be saved from becoming a real PMU...
:thumb:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:06 pm 
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Location: Vermont, USA
Fo,
Is it your impression that we all, like every one of us, did not get the ass whooping part of the training? I would like everyone who did not get their ass handed to them to please raise your hand. See- not a single one. Now, out of the rest of us, how many would have preferred to have done that without some previous insight on how the damn thing works? Raise your hands. Higher please, I am having trouble seeing anybody. Oh there's one. Sir, what's your name? "Foiteken". Interesting name. Can I ask you, is that how you learned, or is this just a clever way to keep potential newbies from coming back for a second helping? "Fuc off".

Our most valuable safety device is the brain. Some refuse to fully engage it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:24 pm 
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Tom183 wrote:
DontKiteHere wrote:
So Tom, a newbe kiter is taking up the gospel. I find it so amusing how in this great sport as soon as someone learns to go upwind, they are qualified to be an instructor and preach the safety gospel.


What amazes me is that someone who has done so little research (Fo) believes THEY have the right to preach.


You read Rick's incident report and consider yourself Kite educated? Everything you know is theory.

What Fo know's is from experience. Experience is the best teacher. He knows more than you will ever know, especially now that you have decided to base all your knowledge and "research" off what Rick has published.

Research?...Fuck man, you're in the wrong sport. As Fo says, let the kite be your teacher. All these people like you who go through the learning process pussy-footing around trying to keep it mellow and do your research are the one's who will get our beaches closed as you ditch your gear when the shit really hits the fan because you have no experience dealing with any extreme situation.

Those of us who taught oursleves on deserted beaches back in the day, we learned everything the hard way. We learned to respect our kites. We learned every possible way to self rescue. We learned how to get into the beach and land our kites on our own when the conditions changed. I just recently learned from Rick that putting sand on my kite will keep it from blowing down the beach (thanks Rick). You guys are masters of the obvious and promoters of the dubious.

You...you read about it. You did your research. We fucking invented it you nice person so don't ask what research Fo has done and why he should be able to preach.


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