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Guerilla First Impressions.

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Guerilla First Impressions.

Postby kiteboarder@pacbell.net » Sun Mar 09, 2003 9:22 pm

Murphy's Law was NOT working :D when my G-13 arrived yesterday, otherwise there wouldn't have been very light wind (perfect for first time launching practice), building to very marginal for riding (perfect for low end testing), building more to pretty nicely powered up, & staying that way so I could test powered-up landing. Okay, I admit that if it had dropped at the end I'd have said "perfect for first time landing practice" :wink: , but honestly, by that time I was comfortable enough with the kite not to need that 8) .

Here's my log entry:

Day 338* 3/7/3 3hrs. (897.25 hrs. to date*)
Lulls of only 7 knots at first & it still self-inflated fine: I just opened the zipper & it was full by the time I unwound the lines & got "dressed" (harness, impact vest, gloves, boots). Self launch per instruction manual is even easier (less sanding & less skill) than a "classic" ARC, although standing more like only 30 degrees from upwind seems better than the recomended 45. 9 knots average on the water, & barely staying upwind which means it's got about the same low end power & turning as the 1120 ARC** (I'm about 60kg), but once slightly more powered (the highest average all day was 13) the turning is MUCH better than the 1120. The G-13 will pivot around one wingtip :D (by comparison, the 1120's inside tip will only turn around a radius of about the wingspan!). This made jibing REALLY fun again, even though I normally really SUCK at jibing the board I happened to be riding :-? .

* Just as a point of reference, my first 210 days (553 hours) were on inflatables, so that's 128 days & 344 hours on "classic" ARCs

** I was on a smaller board than usual, & had my back lines too slack at this point, so the low end power & turning are likely actually better than the 1120, but unfortunately(?) by the time I adjusted, the wind picked up.

Compared to classic ARCs it definitely has a less powerful auto-zenith tendency: It still stays straight overhead once it's there, but it takes a LONG time to make its way up from the side, & while riding, without steering input it maintains its direction ("auto pilot" 8) ). This, combined with the great turning, means that you can do the "inflatable-style" light-wind jibes where you pivot the kite 180 degrees & then carve the board later, without the classic ARC's tendency to rise if the lines go a bit slack. This should help landing jumps, too, but I didn't get to test that since it was so light. It should also help when verging on overpowered with the kite really low. In all these situations when you lose your balance a bit with a classic ARC & let the lines go a little slack, the kite steers itself up, which is not what you want to have happen. The Guerilla doesn't do this. It just stays were it is until you can regain control.

Using the rearmost back line attachment points (which aren't at the very trailing edge) it can still be backed down for downwind landings, even when fairly powered up. There is quite a bit more bar load than a classic ARC with the lines at the very TE, but it's still not all that high. I rode for 3 hours non-stop with no harness line 8) . If you like higher bar load, &/or quicker sheeting & turning (or the same turning with a shorter bar) you'd use the forward attachment points, & then you'd definitely want at least a bungee harness loop, but most likely just a plain, fixed one (preferably releasable).

Conclusion: So far it seems to have a much better combination of all the best aspects of both tubes & ARCs: It's still got the ARC's self-inflation, easy solo launch/land, no-load leash, auto-zenith, small, light, maintenance-free (durable), etc, but unlike old ARC's strong auto-zenith & extremely low bar load, it's got auto-PILOT :D (but not a tube's "auto-dive" :( ) & tube-like user-adjustable bar load, AND quicker turning too! (even on the "slow-turning" pigtail setting!)

Day 339 3/8/3 2.25 hrs (899.5 to date).
Second day on G-13. Winds from 7-16 knots (11av.) to 10-17 (13av.), enough to start trying some jumps. 13 knots is still pretty light, even for me on an 1120ARC or G-13, but the jumps are VERY long* :D , & relatively high :) , even though it was only by the end of the day that I gained enough confidence to whip it enough to get yanked a little backwards on takeoff (which seems to yield the highest jumps on any kite). I think the board I'm on doesn't jump as well as what I'm used to either. I think I'll switch back to my old favorite (jumping/jibing MACHINE) & report more then. It seems VERY good upwind :D . A couple of times after doing a full run of jump after jump after jump, & then stopping to drift downwind while adjusting stuff, I'd find myself surprisingly far upwind after returning ("How the heck did I make it all the way back up here?!" :D ).

*Time, distance, or both. It's your choice, depending on how you whip & edge.

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Postby kiteboarder@pacbell.net » Mon Mar 10, 2003 3:04 am

Day 340 3/9/3 3hrs (902.5 to date)
Third day on G-13. Winds from 12-21 knots (17av.) to 4-17(!) (11av.). Needless to say, coming in when it dropped to 4-17 was pretty grim :x . Earlier I was pretty wound out at times (only about 60kg, remember), but I now must say this kite ROCKS upwind AND DOWNwind :D :D ! It was so fun to be surprised every time I realized how far up I was, that I ended up riding further upwind than I’d ever gone even on a sailboard (probably around 3 miles). I’m not saying that I got there as fast as I would have on a sailboard, but I think it must have been pretty close. Auto-pilot RULES for downwinders :D ! You just park the G at whatever height is appropriate, & just ignore it while you RIP off the wind at warp speed. No need to worry about it going down :evil: (tube) or up :x (“classic” ARC) when you reach terminal velocity, verging on too fast to maintain control & can’t always keep sufficient tension on the lines. The G just stays right where you left it 8) .

By the way, it self-inflated VERY fast, in real wind: Pretty much full by the time I'd folded & sanded the tip!!

AND "Jim" <jhwalker@p..> wrote:

> I was surprised
> that you can still back down your new G. Maybe it is your gusty
> conditions that trigger the kite to fly backwards as this is about
> the only time I have managed a backwards descent unless its under 10
> knots.

The gusty conditions DO help to make it stall when landing, but if it happens to be steady when I hit the beach I still want to be able to back it down, so to test it I'd stopped a couple of times on the water the first day, where the wind was fairly steady, & I'm pretty sure it was over 10 knots, but I could still back it down. Remember I'm using the rear attachment points. I didn't bother stopping on the water to test it in today's stronger winds, but I'll try to remember to do that next time there's a good blow.

> With the side launching I agree that in the lighter winds you need to
> be more like 30 deg to get the downwind tip up cleanly.

I don't know about the tip (I just jerked the lines & it was fine), but it wanted to collapse when I was at 45 or so, although I must admit that I didn't really judge the angle all that carefully, AND the wind was shifting badly, so that 45 degree point was constantly moving on my anyway!

> If you have trouble with the rear line wrap, try my cork cleat
> method, where the downwind lines are cleated into a cork with two
> slits cut in it. I attached the cork to the trailing edge adjacent to
> the zipper using a short length of light cord stitched into the T.E.
> seam. The synthetic corks work best. Either tip can be cleated to the
> cork it just depends which is the downwind tip for the current
> launch. A sharp tug on both lines will release them just prior to
> launching.

Thanks. I'd actually been thinking about your cork tip from before, after having a bit of trouble in today's real winds with a rear line wrapping the tip spar.

> A still haven't made my mind up about the advantages of the 4mm solid
> carbon rods that I have fitted to the bottom skin of the 5th cell of
> my G12. It certainly doesn't hurt the perfomance. The kite seems
> stiffer and even more stable than standard but I'm not noticing any
> better turning speed.

I think that's only supposed to help in light wind (so light you're working the kite). I thought about that today, but it was never light enough to sine and see if (& how) the kite distorts (in order for the added spars to reduce that distortion).

Mel

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Postby doofus » Mon Mar 10, 2003 3:48 am

you might be doing this already but the best thing i found to avoid the downwind tip folding under instead of over on launch is to pull only on the front line. this gets the tip up into the wind nicely so you can then launch by pulling on the brake

when i started doing this my G18 launching rate increased greatly

Craig :D

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Postby Kite Addict » Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:00 am

Gday Mel,

Thanks for your great review on the 13G. I have posted a review on my 18G previously.

RE Leading edge mischief on launching - I've found plenty of back line tension during launch is the key for all ARC's inc the G - prevents leading edge folding in.

On a seperate issue - I discovered an important key to height with jumps yesterday.
In my experience with the Arc's you sheet in to help turn the kite and then sheet out to prevent a stall and let the kite zoom back to 12 / 1 o'clock giving the best lift. If I sheet in my Arc (1120) fully - it stalls after a second or two - I could adjust my trim to prevent this but it helps with solo downwind 'stall' landings.

The G has a bit of an inflatable feel with sheeting - sheet in - more power and a tendency not to stall.

I had been jumping my 18G by sheeting in whilst turning the kite and holding the bar close. I wasn't getting as high as I predicted.

So I tried sheeting in with the turn, then sheeting out as it flew back to 12 /1 o'clock and then sheeting in again after getting airborne - BIG!! improvement.
The G gives you excellent hang time - say if you haven't sheeted in during the jump and are coming down and need more time for another spin etc - sheeting in gives you a 'second' lift - also if timed right just above the water the landings are soo light - like gliding back onto the water.

I've found with varying the attachment settings ( front pigtail and back line points) you can get a large wind range - you can depower this kite very effectively.

Cheers

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Postby kiteboarder@pacbell.net » Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:28 am

"doofus" wrote:
you might be doing this already but the best thing i found to avoid the downwind tip folding under instead of over on launch is to pull only on the front line.
I'm not doing that already, but I never had any trouble with the tip folding under, just with the rear line wrapping around the back of the tip spar while it's flapping waiting for me to run to the bar. Maybe your technique will help that too? If not, I think Jim's idea above will do it.

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Postby doofus » Mon Mar 10, 2003 8:53 am

yeah we do something similar with a small pile of damp sand that's been stepped on to hold the downwind lines

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Postby kiteboarder@pacbell.net » Mon Mar 10, 2003 9:51 am

"doofus" wrote:
yeah we do something similar with a small pile of damp sand that's been stepped on to hold the downwind lines
Okay, I'll try that, but I think that once the tip pulls enough line through the sand so that tip can flap freely*, it will have enough slack to wrap around the tip. Still, it's worth a try, being much easier, lighter, & more aerodynamic than adding a cork to the zipper tab.

*The wind also shifts direction here too, which certainly doesn't help matters.

I left nearly all the text from "monkeyair" <traigtrumbo@e...> intact below (with my comments inserted) for those of you on groups where his reply may not have appeared:

> Hi Mel.
> Sounds like you are having a blast on your G arc. The bar load is
> actually not bad at all even on the forward attachments which I have
> been using on the new models and all the old protos last year. No
> harness line is necessary. If you come from any tube, defenitely no
> fixed harness line is necessary.

Well I did "come from" tube kites, but I haven't used one since mid 2001, so my forearms are a bit out of shape (but quickly building back up again). When I'm feeling strong &/or rested from a few sad days of no wind I'll likely give the forward attachments a try.

> As far as the spar addition goes. Many, many hours on these things
> , with and without spars showed quite an improvement with at the
> bottom end and any time even in upper end when putting lots of control
> input into the kite as in yanking it around while wave sailing where
> distortion can be brought into the kite. The stiffened tips make a big
> difference in the look of distortion in the center span of kite. For
> sure more noticeable in the bottom end though to the casual observer.
> The stock kites rock as well for sure. Certainly not a mandatory
> modification. Just a stiff sway bar added to the 911 porsche sort of
> thing. Good, but not needed by everyone. It was a huge difference for
> all the 12 G users this last year. If you don't yank your kite around
> wave sailing, jumping or signing, stock is fine. We are using firm
> carbon spars as in the tips of the kites in the additional spar
> pockets.

I'm definitely a "stiff sway bar" type of guy, & I like to be able to yank the kite around, so I may end up trying those mods too. Spar added to the bottom of the 5th rib from the end (counting the half-rib as #1), right? How close to the LE do they go?

> Did you switch from your free bar on your new G?

No. I didn't switch anything but the kite itself. I just happened to be in the middle of testing a new board, & plan to switch back to my old favorite for the next G test.

> The 13 and
> above love a lot of sheeting range. There was a 220 pound customer of
> mine on a larger plywood (154 cm?) board and a g 13 here at Leo today
> having a blast in 12 or 13 mph average. You can really work these
> kites. He would do a pump and then just lock it in and zip up wind. I
> was on a 19.5 Gastra. Was on my 18 G earlyer. Like to use lots of
> different stuff. The difference in gust absorption between the two
> are night and day. Huge advantage to the arcs here. These g arc kites
> love board speed. I was on a very small and sinky board. Putting on a
> little larger and faster board was like adding a couple of kite sizes.
> Let us know how your jumps go. We have been getting huge and floaty
> stuff on our G's and love the speed. The kite can accelerate out of
> neutral for a fast landing. The 13 and ten are the kings of this of
> course. Another fellow was out on his 15 G and thought he had the
> perfect kite for the day. He was 170 pounds and on a wave tray 157. It
> is all in board and how much you want to work the kite. When you get
> used to where the power is in the g and start throwing the jumps Mel,
> you will be even more stoked. Still teaching on the s arc and think
> it is a great first timers kite for a good season but the G has realy
> taken the concept to the next level. Flat rocker board and you are a
> planing bullet. Were you on a directional on your G Mel? Thought I
> saw the jybe word in your diary.

You did, & yes I really only ride directionals so far, since I haven't found a bi that suits me (but have a Buzz & LiteWave 136 on order, to see if I like either of them).

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Postby Guest » Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:29 pm

Nice review Mel. My G13 and 10 arrived this weekend an I had another play. I found burying the two downwind lines up near the sanded, windward tip to be the best way to prevent tip wrap. I had the downind tip folded up and over a little and a little tension on the buried lines to keep them there while I got to the bar. Worked for me.

Got to test my new front left line sliding ring bar setup too. I came in as the wind was reaching overpower levels, and gusty with it, which I don;t enjoy much. The kite (13) was parked and depowered at the edge of the window, and dragging me up the beach, so I released the shackle and it drifted down wind. The tip folded over on it's self, but other than that the kite layed out flat - no spiraling or power production, very well behaved just being held by the front right line.

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Postby Rv » Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:30 pm

That guest post was me. My auto-login seems to be broken! :cry:

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Postby sq225917 » Mon Mar 10, 2003 2:04 pm

i might be missing this here but why dont you sand both tips, to stop the flapping. just a little on the top


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