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jpkiter
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Postby jpkiter » Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:11 pm

Whew!! Bummer that these incidents happened but very glad everyone is mostly intact......I had an incident 2 years ago similiar (at the time ...QR was not even invented :o ) needless to say, i'm probably over safety conscious now......I just ordered the Ocean Rodeo Joystick bar...has a release on the wrist leash as well as a release on the 2 loops (fixed+ chicken)...as well as the punch-out feature... Currently, it seems like one of the safest offered on the market... take care..heal quickly

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Postby EdDy_DiFfUsIvItY » Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:21 pm

Rossall - Farkin ell man, when did that happen ? that one would have made me jack it in mate, been a biker for too ong and know the consequences of accidents. Glad you are ok dude. Do we need our heads checkin for insanity ?

Hoofin - Poole.

John E boy - Sounds interesting but too far away to be practical for the next ride. I once had an idea for a push button bar operated one, but no one took it seriously.

JP - Thanks for the info, will be checkin that bar out this afternoon. Kiterich mentioned it to me also.

Thing is, there is no time when these things happen so I'm gonna concentrate at preventative also, like Toby suggested, keeping your hand on the release when launching, pull the bugger if ANYTHING is not feelin right.

I used to have my wichard welded to my spreader bar then tied off to the end of the spreader, I never had a problem in tricky situatuions, gona go bck to that before changin system. leash on left or right back leader so twists dont matter so much.

ok here is the ocean rodeo new bar setup - looks good, only problem is if you let go the bar when riding flat out, accidentaly releasing the kite. you could be miles offshore. worth considering for sure despite this.

http://www.oceanrodeo.com/products/ocea ... nchout.mov
Last edited by EdDy_DiFfUsIvItY on Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr Jo Macdonald
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Postby Mr Jo Macdonald » Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:32 pm

Roneeeeeeee,
whaaaat, I go outta town for a few hours and find you nikin my beach diggin tricks.
Fuck glad to hear you're ok man.
Yeah, after my beach drag I attached the leash so it can help me find the shackle because it's just too hard to find under your stomach.
We did a little testing this weekend and if you slide your hand down the leash when the hand reaches the shackle it releases without having to pull anything which is good.
What we also found out though was that you have to follow the leash from below the bar because if you start above the bar, the bar stops your hand, also if the depower and leash are twisted bad and the shackle is under serious traction pressure it might not spin well.
Anyway it definately gives you a way to find the shackle, but like all systems has drawbacks.

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Postby EdDy_DiFfUsIvItY » Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:40 pm

Hi Jo mate,

yip nickin your trix already! good to hear ya.

Nice idea that leash one, thinking bout it too and yeh, i can see that drawback on the bar thang. Is there a way to attach the leash through the release arm of the QR so that if you pull on the leash from any point , it will release ? thus negating the need to follow the leash ?? jus an idea.

What do you rekon to this ocean rodeo solution ? I like it but dont like the fact it can go off accidentaly - in theory - if you let the bar go in flight accidentaly ?

anyone got one who can comment ?

Personally, I think adding a QR to the top of the depower might be an idea to try, this one only to be used toghether with STD setup i.e. wichard both ends of the depowerline ???? it will work in my mind, b ut have to go home and set it up.

Regards to all.

Deflated Ron.

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Postby Guest » Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:45 pm

Shakles SUCK!!! :nono: The worst "safety" feature ever to hit the kite market!!!!

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Axis
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Postby Axis » Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:46 pm

Hi R,

Glad you are OK. Nothing to add on the shackle note - by the way I don't use one.

But I definately know what you mean about the lines binding in high winds while you set up and they are a flapping. The way I overcome this in 25 knots + is to set up the self launch as usual, and as soon as I attach my lines, I sand my upper lines aapprox 6 metres from the kite(as these are the ones that bind in high wind). This puts enough pressure on the upper lines to keep them from binding, but is forgiving enough that the kite tip can still hover up and down with the gusts. I find that this stops the lines binding which caused your scary ride in the first place.

If you give it a go let me know what you think. :P

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Mr Jo Macdonald
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Postby Mr Jo Macdonald » Mon Apr 14, 2003 1:51 pm

Yeah you can set the leash up so it releases by pulling on it upwards but I think this could lead to loads of accidental releases and the leash obviously can't be in tension, any tension on it will release the depower. Like it is now wwhen riding the leash under tension prevents accidental releases, in fact I haven't ever had one, also if you're getting dragged the ground pulls your hand down the leash even faster.
I think the most important thing is that you can find the bloody thing while being dragged at high speed by a mad traction kite.
You can have a shackle at the top of the trim or depower, i.e. above the bar but I don't think you can then have the depower going through the bar or a fairlead, the bar has to be free or else the shackle or ring will end up against the bar, unless the shackle releases from just plain rope but still if this has to pull through the bar I think it's asking for trouble.
One of the problems with leashes is that if they catch the kite goes into a death spin and you'll probably be worse off than you already were.
Also it will mean having a shackle near the trim that you're grabbing to trim the kite.

What I would really like to have on my LEIs is a safety system like I've got on my foil.
This has actually nothing to do with releasing the kite, right in front of your face you have the leash and blue cross line to haul down on and kill the kite without releasing the depower.

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Postby EdDy_DiFfUsIvItY » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:02 pm

yip, thinking about it more you are right Jo. forget the QR at the top.
what do you think of the Ocean Rodeo thang on my last post ?

the other thing is that when you get one of these incidents, and you have changed your QR or relase rig, you react as for the old system and totaly miss your QR as you have moved it. it is Vital that your brain knows where to reach also.

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RickI
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Postby RickI » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:15 pm

Hello Eddy,

Glad you made it through a nasty session. Lots of uncertainty in this sport when things go extreme particularly near hard objects. I agree, avoiding solo launching in stronger conditions makes good sense. You still need to preflight your gear a few times and have your trainined helper do what he can from his end as well. Launching unhooked is a possible approach IF conditions aren't too strong. Some guys launch with one hand on their QR. In theory this should help. Then again if you are lofted or dragged suddenly you might move your hand or react too late to do much good.

Mentally and physically rehearsing activating your QR or shackle frequently MAY help. What is needed is an automatic QR which is somewhere off in the dim future at present from indications. Until a reliable one comes into being, judgement and careful technique will have to serve to help to keep us out of trouble.

Glad you are all right!
Last edited by RickI on Mon Apr 14, 2003 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Mr Jo Macdonald
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Postby Mr Jo Macdonald » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:24 pm

Haven't tried the push out release, it sounds like a really good idea but maybe accidental releases are a prob, I dunno.
Thing is you have to try these systems in such a variety of situations, they have to work even if everythings all fucked up which they don't, and they have to be easy to use in an emergency which they aren't.

Actually I'm thinkin about selling all my LEIS and getting another foil until someone comes up with a safe safety system for LEIS
Jo goin nuts or just psycho??


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