working upwind with big kites

[lndpnt]

I'd be interested in hearing some views on pointing up wind with big kites. I'm using a Hana Crew Double vision that shoots me upwind on my smaller kites. I had a flysurfer 12.0, that even when fully powered, would hang back in the window.
I just replaced it with a Mach1 18.0. I've only used it once and felt powered up but could just barely make it back to the launch spot. Is this just a charactaristic of big kites?
thanks/Lane

[Guest]

lane i ve had the same problem w my hana crew it is a great board but does not like marginal wind the solution was to go to a larger twin tip or a directional this solved my problem , i ride naish arxs and will be trying the x2 soon, maybe the better kite will help because i prefer my hana

[lndpnt]

I would agree, except a friend was on the same Mach1 that same day, he was using a Lightwave 181 which is apparently a good lightwind board and wasn't pointing any better than I was, although i think he has 15-20 pounds on me. I also notice working a high AR kite generates lots of power but it tends to get back in the window. I could point better by not flying the kite too much and just going slower. What bigger twintip do you like? BTW - I agree Hana Crew's rule!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: lndpnt on 2002-04-30 15:32 ]</font>

[Guest]

When it comes to riding in light or marginal winds rider skill plays a very important part, it takes a lot of technique to milk the most out of the kite.

Relative wind is your friend in these conditions and body weight plays a big big role as does the board's planing area (length width rocker etc)

Sean

[lndpnt]

Hi Sean, OK I'm interested , if you have a minute, could you elaborate? I know a bit about apparent wind (flying the kite around generates power) but it seems too much flying tends to pull you down wind. What do you mean relative wind? And how does body weight come into play? I was hoping you could share some of the "rider technique" with me,
thanks/Lane

[PMad]

I also have a great time in light winds with my 18m2/mach1

I found that to work it upwind in such conditions, I am better off with my old directional. Point is usually to work the kite both in up/downs pumps, *and* in the window (find the sweet spot on the bar, and let the kite fly fast by times (moves forward, pulls you up wind), or pull you stronger other times (gives you the speed you need to edge).

Not sure the above makes sense to others, but works well for me when in light winds (hard work on the arms, though).

Of course, when winds are at 10+ mph, this kite is a great upwinder, despite its size!).

Cheers!

[lndpnt]

Hey Jido,
Thanks for the tips, I'm sure I will develop a feel for the kite the more I use it. There's a real art to getting on and off the edge as you power the kite without killing your speed. but that's a great idea with the old directional. I've got two, an f-one 230 and a Fox custom, I'll give that a try, maybe today,
Lane

[mike]

Hi Lane,

I know it's a bit late to bring this up, but the Mastair 12 goes better upwind than any other (big) inflatable I know. (I would miss mine for sure - I put my Mastair for sale in an earlier post).

Anyway, here're some tips that work for me when riding in light wind conditions.

- keep the kite high (more than 50 deg up). Keeping the kite low will only make you edge harder and may stall you/the kite if not powered enough.

- keep your speed up. This may involve going downwind at times to gather up some speed and then edging and pointing the board upwind. Speed will also increase the apparent wind effect of the kite.

Hope this will help

Mike

[lndpnt]

Thanks Mike, I had the 2001 version Mastair. I upgraded the swivel pulleys and ball and stopper kit, but i just couldn't get the kite forward in the window. I believe the lines would twist and engage the brake ever so slightly. I could actually see the trailing edge curling under causing drag. This issue was confirmed by both the people at Flysurfer.de and the rep in my area. I had several expert riders try it as well. We all ended up walking it up the beach. I know there are lots of happy mastair owners that could have helped me tune the kite, but none live near me. So I sold the kite having never really tuned it properly. It's too bad because I thought it was an ingenious design and appeared to be the most efficient kite I'd ever seen.
Thanks for your thoughts on pointing upwind. I'll be trying them for sure, Lane

[mike]

Lane,

when properly tuned, the Mastair 12 goes upwind better than inflatables. This is widely supported but also personally experienced when riding next to guys with inflatables. I can cover the same upwind distance in about half the time.

My earlier tips were more for going upwing in low winds (underpowered). When powered up, you may want to keep the kite lower than 45 deg so that you can edge harder/easier (to fight the pull and keeping the kite to the edge of the window) pointing the board upwind at the same time.

Yesterday I was out with the Mastair12 on a Wave Tray 147. In 10 knots keeping the kite low made me stall and fall back, since my body stance would made me edge harder (without wanting to). Instead, keeping the kite around 65/70 deg enabled me to flatten the board, gather up some speed and then by applying a gentle edge I was going upwind. A fine balance is required in marginally low winds, which comes with practice. With directionals things are a bit easier since you can work more with the fins instead of the edge. I could go upwind in 7/8 knots with my 6'6" directional.

Here's is another upwind tip : turning your head (and hips) and looking at the place you want to go (upwind) will help since instictively you also turn the board upwind.

Good luck!

Mike