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Elbow Pain

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Marizu
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Elbow Pain

Postby Marizu » Fri May 30, 2003 11:53 pm

I know a number of guys that are suffering with elbow problems. They all ride in the chicken loop (we get gusty wind), but none seem to use a fixed loop.
Since switching to a locking bar, my problems went.
Are guys that ride mainly in the fixed loop, unhooked or on fixed bars getting elbow problems?

M

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MonkeyAir
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Postby MonkeyAir » Sat May 31, 2003 6:25 am

Hi.
Most likely you have seen in your friends a conditon called lateral epicondylitis. ie, tennis elbow.. Overuse of a muscle group and the swelling and pain at it's insertion into a point on the outside of the elbow. Bicipetal tendonitis is another possibility. (There are others of course but these are really common) These are overuse injuries. The g arc does not pull much on the back lines and thus does not cause pain in my pre injured elbow. A long session on my tube in the chicken loop will as you are putting the strain into the arms constantly. The fixed loop takes pull off the arms at the cost of forcing all depowering to be done with the board and ankle, knee, hip and low back injuries result. Better to use a chicken loop kite that has a little less back line load and save your elbows and your knees. We all started with kites with no depower outside of what our legs could provide and all the microtraumaus of slamming through chop with our legs loaded to the max added up. Think of mogul skiing for four or five hours a day. That is what you are really doing when using only a harness line in heavy chop when truly powered up. Want to be kite surfing when I am 80. Think I will stick with a light bar load and save what is left of my knees and arms. A very stiff kite does not absorb much in the way of gusts and all the force is translated through the lines to the bar and your arms. That constant yanking is going to ...You guessed it. The muscles, tendons, ligaments, articular cartilage, etc, and causing a little damage with each jolt. Tiny jolts add up. Sound like the old guy who talks about walking through the snow to school here...Crap...Anyway. Play it safe and save the body.
Hope this helped. Traig

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Peter_Frank
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Postby Peter_Frank » Sat May 31, 2003 7:54 am

There is one interesting thing here...

These elbow problems occurs very often, because kitesurfing is a new sport (4 years old only...).

Those of us, who comes from windsurfing, dont have these problems - because our joints are getting tougher over the years !
But it takes many years to develop, as the tendons/ligaments etc. will only develop very very slowly over lots of years - whereas muscles can be trained extremely fast (weeks/months...).
Thats why you see so many sports injuries, especially on young people starting up - because their joints are not evolved enough for the stress.

In the first 5 years of windsurfing, we could often have elbow pain and other "load" pains.

But during the years, it dissappeared, even with increasing load and use.

So if you have been windsurfing a lot (during many years, and especially waves/freestyle which is much harder, as using your trapeze is too easy...) you most likely wont get these elbow troubles.

If you havent done windsurfing, you might very easy get this stress on the elbow - and using the fixed loop helps a lot !

Or use extreme front line flyers like the Wipika Airblast, Takoon Skoops/Wook, Airush Lift etc.

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Postby Kitedemon » Sat May 31, 2003 10:32 am

I used to get the elbow pain for ages until I changed kites. It was getting to the point where I could no longer bear going out for more than half an hour. I changed from a 13.5 ARX to the Ocean rodeo kites. Much much better. and now the only damage i do is to my ego when i land flat on my arse after a jump.

:thumb:

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Postby Fabjet1 » Sat May 31, 2003 2:46 pm

Yes I think this is the real solution.
All the others: fix loop, arms as straight as possible, ibuprofen and streching B4 and after, icing after and finally cortison injections,
will be meaningless if everytime you go back kiting you have a back line flyer, or a kite that required a hard pull on the bar.
You'll just get injured again, thats my personal opinion.

Now if anybody that had elbow problems and resolve them by changing kite could list the kites, brand and sizes that will be great.
Here is a start:

RRD Type 4.1 2001 (prob.) Change to Takoon scoop 2001 (ok)
X2 2002 12, 14M after 3 riding days Change to RRD airtype 2003 16m (no pain at all)

Would like to know about scoop2, Amp, cabrhina 2003.

Thks.

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Postby Marizu » Sat May 31, 2003 7:12 pm

Interestingly, I learned on AirBlasts and that is where my elbow problem originally came from.
I am trying (finances permitting) to switch to Cautions which sit further back in the window. They feel much better to me but are more physical to depower. I already retired my 11.8 to the 15m and due to my Stage 2 bar have felt no adverse elbow effects.
I'll have to keep a close eye on things. This concens me for the longer term.

Mari-zu

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elbow

Postby tux » Sat May 31, 2003 8:31 pm

Peter Wrote:
[These elbow problems occurs very often, because kitesurfing is a new sport (4 years old only...).

Those of us, who comes from windsurfing, dont have these problems - because our joints are getting tougher over the years ! ]

I was a windsufer since I was 11 years old, (now I'm 36 :cry: )
Kiter since 4 year, and last autumn in a blody day with gusty scirocco wind (15-32 kts) and a too small kite 7,5 mt I've start having trouble to my elbow.
Now I have pain after every session if underpowered, since I have to work on the bar to improve the speed of the kite.

Ps I know other 2 kiter ex windsurfer like me now with elbow problem.

Tux
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Peter_Frank
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Postby Peter_Frank » Sat May 31, 2003 8:33 pm

Fabjet1 wrote:Yes I think this is the real solution.
All the others: fix loop, arms as straight as possible, ibuprofen and streching B4 and after, icing after and finally cortison injections,
will be meaningless if everytime you go back kiting you have a back line flyer, or a kite that required a hard pull on the bar.
You'll just get injured again, thats my personal opinion.

Now if anybody that had elbow problems and resolve them by changing kite could list the kites, brand and sizes that will be great.
Here is a start:

RRD Type 4.1 2001 (prob.) Change to Takoon scoop 2001 (ok)
X2 2002 12, 14M after 3 riding days Change to RRD airtype 2003 16m (no pain at all)

Would like to know about scoop2, Amp, cabrhina 2003.

Thks.
Skoop2 is just as light, or lighter on the bar as the Skoop 2001, so this is good.

But the Airblast is one of the most frontline flyers of all kites, with extreme light bar pressure and good turning - so its a bit odd that Marizu's elbow pain comes from these.

If you really have a serious problem, you could mount the bridles on the Airblast - and you will for sure have no more elbow pain at all !

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Postby JayEl » Sat May 31, 2003 9:00 pm

I suffer from elbow pain after kiting in low wind conditions.
This can be with my RRD Type IV 14,9 or with my X2 16.
I did 15 years of windsurfing, and that didn't help me.

I think it comes from the excess movements that are necessary to make a big kite turn in light wind.

JL

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Postby Ozone Kites AUS » Sun Jun 01, 2003 1:48 am

[quote="JayEl"]I suffer from elbow pain after kiting in low wind conditions.
This can be with my RRD Type IV 14,9 or with my X2 16.
I did 15 years of windsurfing, and that didn't help me.

I think it comes from the excess movements that are necessary to make a big kite turn in light wind.

JL[/quote]

How can kiters get tennis elbow, seems to me that there is no similarity in the grip, range of movement, or joint loading. Some people seem to be very exspurt at why they get pains in the arms, maybe they use their arm for some purpose a lot more than most of us here.

Have you ever experimented with altering the bar position, when flying your kite in underpowered conditions where you have to work the kite a lot to keep upwind? I have and it has helped every person I know who has done it too!

Inflatable kites fly best in underpowered conditions, "depowered"a bit via the trim strap/cleat. This has the effect of speeding up the kite, thereby generating more power, and increasing the size of the wind window a bit.
But it also deprives the kite of some of its turning tightness, so it needs more muscle from the rider, and the riders kite will generally not be tuned for light wind flying. This means the bar position will not be ideal, probabaly too far away from most riders, increasing the loading of the riders elbow joints/tendons/muscles.

Do a simple experiement now, see how much pressure you can apply to a friend, by extending your hand in front of you and pushing sideways. Now do it with your elbow bent at close to a right angle - more power/strength is there!?

Elbow pain seesm to be a combination of overuse injury, exacerbated by a poor "posture", so change the bar position and you will most likely find the pain goes away, provided the overuse injury has healed. If pain persists see a real doctor, and try resting the injured area.
Taking anti inflammatory medication to mask the pain can lead to permanent injuries.


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