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PBT Topsheet?

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Fullwatts
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PBT Topsheet?

Postby Fullwatts » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:31 pm

Aloha Builders! Stoked I found this forum. Wealth of info here, I'm positive I can build my own kiteboards based on what I've found here. I'll be posting pics of my progress as I get going. I've got several years of experience building custom SUP paddle blades and accessories so I'm more than familiar with working with carbon, vacuum bagging and all the processes involved.

Before I get started building my rocker table I've been running down a list of the materials I need to build the board with. Most of it is available here in Maui, and I have a lot of it in my shop, the one thing I having trouble finding is "topsheet" material, several users here have talked about using it, Xswind used it in his "Porker" build and others have referenced using it to achieve an even pin hole free surface finish. I found a link to snowboardmaterials.com http://snowboardmaterials.com/pages/wakeboard_materials.htm and they seem to stock it by the yard but only in gloss white. I'd prefer to have the carbon visible under the topsheet so I want a clear topsheet. From what I read PBT (Polybutylene terephthalate) topsheet is the most common and easiest to work with. It looks like there are major distributors like crown plastics that sell it but only in massive volume. I need to buy less than ten meters to make a few boards....

Can anyone give me a lead on where buy clear PBT topsheet by the yard in the US?

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Re: PBT Topsheet?

Postby Bigdog » Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:09 pm

Forget that crap. Just finish your carbon with a clearcoat of resin and sand/buff or use a spray to get the bling. I am assuming you are using vacuum and not a pneumatic press. Even with a press the pbt can be problematic....trust me.

Stan

Fullwatts
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Re: PBT Topsheet?

Postby Fullwatts » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:54 am

Thanks Stan,
I'm inclined to do just that, skip the topsheet altogether, I've made a ton of paddle blades in a bag with the peel ply surface and just used a couple coats of aluzine resin to fill the surface and get a nice mirror finish after some wet sanding and polishing. Getting a perfect pin free finish off the bottom is easy by just using a thin B-staged layer of resin before the main layup. If you're telling me that dealing with topsheets is a pain in the ass maybe I'll skip it, but I liked the idea of "clean out of the bag" no fill coats or wet sanding. I don't care about graphics so I'm curious...
What's the problem you've had with topsheet process? wrinkles? de-lam?

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Re: PBT Topsheet?

Postby Bigdog » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:10 am

In a vacuum system you may have problems getting a flat top finish since the vacuum only has 14psi to push the resin underneath. With a pneumatic press we can go with so much more pressure and a flat press plate this is not an issue. If the PBT is opaque then at least it won't show the bubbles that will not get moved under vacuum. With a clear sheet I think it a very unlikely you will be happy with the result.
With carbon try a pre-cure on glass or plexi and then use that as you were thinking with the pbt to get an out of bag shiny finish. That does work well with cotton graphics and texalium as well.

Stan

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Re: PBT Topsheet?

Postby zob » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:22 am

Does anybody have any source for PBT sheets with graphics in Europe?
Also any info on silk, rice paper or cotton sheets with graphics would come in handy. :wink:

I am thinking of using a PBT sheet for the bottom top sheet quite some time. Can't find any supplyer close. I won't mess with it on the top of the board because I expect bad resaults. Too much edges,... But would like to trie how it works on the bottom since it should be scratch proof.
Scratching of the hoat-coated surface leaves white scratches and the board is loosing it's ''bling''. It can be polished, but why bother!?

Otherwise I would like to trie one of the other sheets meant only to apply graphics into the board. Do not know which one is better, rice paper, silk or cotton cloth?

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Re: PBT Topsheet?

Postby JMF » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:00 pm

Funny was going to post on this very subject. Finished one of my boards with a decent clear coat and was not happy at all, it's not bad just not durable. Used ultra thin vynil stickers for graphics and clear coated over that. Works well for a Speed board that does not see much use or abuse, but for my next TT going to use PBT/Dura surf hitting kickers and rails on 2k paint will cause problems after the first session. My setup is pulling about 95% of atmosohere on the top end so it should be ok. Altohugh someone told me pressing PBT give much better results.

What I want to know is how you print the graphics on the PBT and what epoxy system to use. Same epoxy as the rest of the layup?

Snowboardmaterials.com sell PBT and even offer a printing service for around $40 a sheet. I've used them before to buy inserts for my boards. But I'm really interested in the printing and applying of PBT to the board. I don't mind all the PT :wink: after all isn't what we here for :(

A guy that helped me a lot over at www.squirtnatic.nl also uses PBT in his home boards with no problems. Obviously he has a decent pump you not going to get that good a vacuum using your home vacuum machine that's for sure.

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Re: PBT Topsheet?

Postby ANC » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:40 pm

zob wrote:Does anybody have any source for PBT sheets with graphics in Europe?
Also any info on silk, rice paper or cotton sheets with graphics would come in handy. :wink:

I am thinking of using a PBT sheet for the bottom top sheet quite some time. Can't find any supplyer close. I won't mess with it on the top of the board because I expect bad resaults. Too much edges,... But would like to trie how it works on the bottom since it should be scratch proof.
Scratching of the hoat-coated surface leaves white scratches and the board is loosing it's ''bling''. It can be polished, but why bother!?

Otherwise I would like to trie one of the other sheets meant only to apply graphics into the board. Do not know which one is better, rice paper, silk or cotton cloth?


These guys have the sheet but I dont know about printing

http://www.boardbuildingsupply.eu/index.php?cPath=22

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Re: PBT Topsheet?

Postby vol » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:40 pm

PBT commonly used for sublimation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCTjYWyYH4c

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Re: PBT Topsheet?

Postby XSwind » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:35 pm

Fullwatts wrote:Aloha Builders! Stoked I found this forum. Wealth of info here, I'm positive I can build my own kiteboards based on what I've found here. I'll be posting pics of my progress as I get going. I've got several years of experience building custom SUP paddle blades and accessories so I'm more than familiar with working with carbon, vacuum bagging and all the processes involved.

Before I get started building my rocker table I've been running down a list of the materials I need to build the board with. Most of it is available here in Maui, and I have a lot of it in my shop, the one thing I having trouble finding is "topsheet" material, several users here have talked about using it, Xswind used it in his "Porker" build and others have referenced using it to achieve an even pin hole free surface finish. I found a link to snowboardmaterials.com http://snowboardmaterials.com/pages/wakeboard_materials.htm and they seem to stock it by the yard but only in gloss white. I'd prefer to have the carbon visible under the topsheet so I want a clear topsheet. From what I read PBT (Polybutylene terephthalate) topsheet is the most common and easiest to work with. It looks like there are major distributors like crown plastics that sell it but only in massive volume. I need to buy less than ten meters to make a few boards....

Can anyone give me a lead on where buy clear PBT topsheet by the yard in the US?


Hi

I noticed that you looked at my Porker thread from a few years back, the top sheet process I use does not use PBT, it is a process where the top sheets of carbon and resin are laid down and formed before being expoxied to the core. This gives me a pin hole free and glossy top finish without the faff of sanding and hot coating then polishing, my boards come of the rocker table needing only the flash removed. I do use PBT on the bottom though.


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