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 Post subject: Alaia3- veneer composit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:01 pm 
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Oi!

I like Alaia so much, that I already made three (1st one broke :().
Usually I would make the core with bonding thin ply-boards, pressed down to the rocker table with exact Alaia bottom shape, and go from there.

For the latest Alaia I used veneer, cross laminated it (to save on FG cloth and carbon strips :D), so basically I created a ply-board core again. I nailed the flex of my 2nd Alaia, and it feels solid, compared to the 2nd which has a bit of wobble.
I've put a lot of effort in making the upper part of the press, that compliments the bottom shape/rocker table, so now all the sections of the board get pressed with more or less the same force. And I must say I got rewarded, because the biggest air bubble in the bottom FG laminate (between TPU/ABS top sheet and bamboo veneer) was like 3x3 mm and it has no company :D
Just for comparison, I had several bubbles of size 10x10, 5x30 cm,... and yes I said cm, on Alaia2.

Photo or two.
Find rocker table photos in Alaia2 folder.

All comments and questions welcome.

Image Image


Last edited by zob on Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Alaia3- veneer composit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:09 pm 
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Nice!! Great looking board!


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 Post subject: Re: Alaia3- veneer composit
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:22 pm 
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Enough with the teaser! :wink:



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 Post subject: Re: Alaia3- veneer composit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:04 am 
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zob wrote:
Oi!

(between TPU/ABS top sheet and bamboo veneer) was like 3x3 mm and it has no company :D
Just for comparison, I had several bubbles of size 10x10, 5x30 cm,... and yes I said cm, on Alaia2.




Oi to you !

I'm interested in your TPU! What's the width and can I get some?

Our Alias are just a P. wood planks with a lano oil, no rails, just wood, so I'm puzzled why not doing it like that?

D.


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 Post subject: Re: Alaia3- veneer composit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:44 am 
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Location: drtuba.eu, kite-stuff.org, eXtremist.si, kajtar.si
Hi Zob nice one! :thumb: Sure want to test this one too! :wink:

:bye:


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 Post subject: Re: Alaia3- veneer composit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:59 pm 
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downunder wrote:
I'm interested in your TPU! What's the width and can I get some?


It's 500 mm wide and is sold @ junksupply.com
There is a down side. Price increase, weight increase (2 sheets for Alaia weigh 600-650 g- will know exactly when I weigh the protective foil when I remove it), harder to get air bubbles from the laminate.
However, you get a perfect shiny finish with some anti-scratch characteristics.

downunder wrote:
Our Alias are just a P. wood planks with a lano oil, no rails, just wood, so I'm puzzled why not doing it like that?


1. I give to excellent design, 21st century construction ;)
2. Hard to source P. wood, planks or plank boards (junksupply has some thinner, shorter ones).
3. The precision of the rocker table is much higher, than me shaping with planer and sander would be.
4. There is a lot less dust and elbow grease involved in the process.
5. This one doesn't have any special rails either. And I think there is no need since you don't hit rock when edging, due to the tappered bottom shape.
6. The shape is repeatable.

The idea was to make it lighter and more flexible (although I have no real figures to compare).
It is heavy, so for now I failed on weight target (again no real target, it is just to heavy).
I intend to get rid of the decorative bamboo veneer layer and use denser veneer with decorative atribute as final veneer layers (instead of ayous, used for the core- it gets dented when you hit rocks, and thin bamboo doesn't help much. I suspect I wont gain anything on the weight part, but it will simplify the process a bit, and gain a few € saving (those fineline veneers are expensive as hell).
I'm keeping my eyes opened to find someone to switch anykind of Alalia (original or HM) for a few runs, to be able to compare the flex and overall feel (at least whole session would be needed to realy get used to it).
Anyhow this board really excells in strong wind/chop. I'm highly impressed with it's grip and snappy responsiveness.
I'm curently making another one with just slightly more flex for my lighter friends, because it seems they can not feal the snappiness in chop, or they just need more time on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Alaia3- veneer composit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:41 pm 
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Let me explain a bit on point 3., rocker table collar feature for "tapered bottom" :

I used the Alaia template and a router to cut 2,5 mm thick plyboards, having the outline incrementing (or decreasing) for 3 cm, to get 6 different plyboard sheets. Than I pressed them on rocker table, than I sanded the taper and if you can imagine if you have 3-layered ply and you start to taper it from 2,5 to 0 mm you will two lines (veneer borders), to have visual check and meassurements if needed.
I checked the line in the middle of the taper, to match exactly the shape of the template and this was than the reference line, to check the distances between other lines (basically to check that the angle is uniform along the outline.
I've cut sheets for the concave on the table saw by width.
All parts are fixed before gluing, so they do not missalign during pressing, otherwise all the precision and affort would go to waste.

Picture shows rougly sanded collar and concave insert.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Alaia3- veneer composit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:49 pm 
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Board construction goes like this:
-----------------------------------------------
0,4 mm- TPU topsheet
0°- 220 g/m2- UD FG
0°- 0,6 mm- bamboo venner ---------------------- top sheet part
0°- 2,5 mm- ayous veneer
-----------------------------------------------
30°- 1,5 mm- ayous veneer
-30°- 1,5 mm- ayous veneer
90°- 1,5 mm- ayous veneer ---------------------- core part
30°- 1,5 mm- ayous veneer
-30°- 1,5 mm- ayous veneer
------------------------------------------------
top sheet part again (reversed :D)
------------------------------------------------

Core part is tappered at tip and tail to get proper flex.
Edge has r5 round on top, and small champfer and round on some parts at the bottom. Finished with boat varnish- 4 layers. I intend to check and repair the finish once in a while if damaged.

The other one I am working on now will have the same top sheet part construction and the core part:
--------------------------------------------------
45°- 1,5 mm- ayous veneer
-45°- 1,5 mm- ayous veneer
45°- 1,5 mm- ayous veneer ---------------------- 2nd core part
-45°- 1,5 mm- ayous veneer
---------------------------------------------------
I will have to get back on this later, however the idea is to ditch the bamboo and change ayous so it would look like this:
-----------------------------------------------
0,4 mm- TPU topsheet --------------------- ---------------------- --------------------- 2nd top sheet part (idea)
0°- 280 g/m2- FG normal cloth (or upper UD, depends on veener
0°- 1,5- 2 mm- veneer- harder wood (can not be dinged with finger nail through FG and TPU)
-----------------------------------------------
Anyhow you will have to wait for me to finish the "chop video" to see how can words like Alaia, fun, chop, high wind and excell, work together :lol: :cool2:


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 Post subject: Re: Alaia3- veneer composit
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:58 pm 
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BTW, earlier I opened the press with my bottom top sheet part (which is the toughest part for me to do perfect) with prelam carbon letters. :wink:
And, guess what?
It turned out perfect! Not a single bubble between TPU and FG. Ordinary small bubble in FG here and there :jump:


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 Post subject: Re: Alaia3- veneer composit
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
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Whow,

that is one over engineered Alaia:) Looks fantastic tho, and congrats on a sale.

By press do you mean a proper pneumatic press with a air bladder or what? So wide area it's interesting how the air bubbles disappeared.

D.


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