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Paper backing on veneer

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:11 pm
by foam-n-fibre
Hi, has anyone done any directionals using veneer with paper backing? You would hope that the resin would just soak through the paper like it's not there, but after some googling, I've found some woodworkers who have had bonding issues using epoxy on paper-backed veneer. Others say you can fix that by wiping with solvent and sanding the paper.

Maybe it can be sanded right off. There must be glue from the paper in there too which could affect the bond. Ultimately as long as the paper does not created the "weakest link", it may be that even a reduced bond is sronger than the foam bond. (I ask because I might have found a decent source for veneer which works for me, but it seem to come with paper)

But better yet, maybe someone has answers for me!

Thx, Peter

Re: Paper backing on veneer

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:20 am
by BWD
You might want thicker veneer than the paper backed kind if you are after anything but cosmetics anyway.
Structural veneer. 1/16-1/8 inch (and more for other uses).
If you are after just a bit more skin buckling resistance, you can add a resin-only layer over the first glass layer, then another layer or 2 of glass on top of the resin coat.
If you don't believe that, just add another glass layer.
Or do some testing...
Since separating the glass layers of the skin is what makes it resist buckling, if you use veneer as thin as the paper backed kind usually is, you might as well not use wood, imo.

Re: Paper backing on veneer

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:05 pm
by foam-n-fibre
That's an interesting thought. I was thinking that when using the bamboo veneer like many boards seem to do, the bamboo was generally about as thick as a layer of glass, and added a roughly similar strength as glass. I have not looked up the exact thickness specs on glass vs veneer though. I can't imagine any are using 1/8th though, that would get heavy really fast would it not?

Maybe a better question is how much of the use of veneer that we see is a cosmetic thing, versus achieving some function that is not easier got with glass? They do look nice though, although now that I think about it, some of the Slingshot's I've seen are fairly heavy, although that might not be the wood, it just may be that they're built for kiting versus built for surfing.

Peter

Re: Paper backing on veneer

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:28 pm
by Bigdog
I have made a couple of veneer over 1.5lb eps and all I can say it really makes a composite skin with glass/epoxy.. The typical unbacked veneers are 0.5mm. I think since they are lighter than a layer of glass and epoxy they add stiffness with less weight than just building up more layers of glass. The windsurf company starboard has been building with pine veneer for years and for weight savings not cosmetics. They state on their site the thickness of the veneer to be 0.6mm

Cheers
Stan

Re: Paper backing on veneer

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:50 pm
by foam-n-fibre
Ah, I finally found a bit more info from this site:
http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/ ... veneer.htm

It says: "Backed veneers have a very thin face of real wood in which the actual thickness is not spec'd due to the sanding process that they perform to make the veneer perfectly smooth. " So, sounds like this is not the stuff I want..... or at least you never know what thickness you might get. It might end up being a layer of mostly paper!

Peter

Re: Paper backing on veneer

Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:24 am
by Bigdog
Paper is wood too. LOL. I have some really heavy craft paper and have thought about using it compsand for giggles. Might be just as good...Never know till you try,