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New Twins - Twin Tip Kiteboard Under Construction

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rynhardt
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Re: New Twins - Twin Tip Kiteboard Under Construction

Postby rynhardt » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:49 am

downunder wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:25 am
^
Of course it can be poured. But, the bubbles are the killer with a PU, as we know. Try it, you'll know...Only one big bubble is needed to ruin the project.

What you see on the vid is a poured PU, since I've made them :) Have a look: http://boardbuilders-forum.1077691.n5.n ... d1034.html

As I said, we don't see production boards with epoxy rails. There is a good reason why.
Except for those Carved customs guys. They use carbon filled epoxy rails for their 'unibody' construction.

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downunder
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Re: New Twins - Twin Tip Kiteboard Under Construction

Postby downunder » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:14 am

Yeah, the most expensive boards money can buy ;) I've forgotten about them.

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rynhardt
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Re: New Twins - Twin Tip Kiteboard Under Construction

Postby rynhardt » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:38 am

downunder wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:14 am
Yeah, the most expensive boards money can buy ;) I've forgotten about them.
not anymore.. look at the top of the range Nomad :o

Nomad Carbon CCS - 1750 euro
Carved Imperator 6 - 1299 euro

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Re: New Twins - Twin Tip Kiteboard Under Construction

Postby Grkite » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:55 pm

downunder wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:59 am
Which issues? :)

Do you see me flaming? :) The process you see is what it is, the rails are sanded a bit before. I challenge anyone to do it faster and more feasible , cleaner, etc etc. ;)

You can do 1,2,3 with PU. Actually, the epoxy is brittle. The elongation break for epoxies (cheap ones), is way less than PU (shore 90). The PU gives you impact protection as per production boards. Not to mention cost coz PU is way less expensive.

How many bubbles you've got in the rails? That's probably more near wood line simply because this is where air is trapped and degassing (epoxy produces heat, heat will expand air bubbles). There is no way to control this. The air void can be trapped inside no matter what.

The premade PU rails eliminate this, as you see, it's very tight channel. For sure I'm using similar for inserts and fins.
And, it is highly repeatable, which diy pouring is simply not. Forget about the abs, it's too expensive and too much work.

D.
I agree thst looks so clean.Three questions:

1.Where do you find them (PU strips) in that shape...?
2.Did u ever had any issues in the connection of the strips? 3.When shapping..rooted do you have melting of material?

Now for my input in pooring Epoxy in channels...
If the resin epoxy has low viscosity it will go in the porous and everything willbe ok..also unfortunatelly for the messy issue, a good way that iused,was to use the vibration of the phone on the pawlonia sheet and u will see the level going down and more bubbles on the surface ....more epoxy more expensive...yeah i know...but works ok as all the bubbles come on surface that is gonna get shaped/shanded..leaving a perfect surface. Brittlness is quite another issue...there is way to avoid of that ....but is something that I still monitor in a trial board..
But In case you hit the brittle rail ...this is probably fixable....what happens with the PU??

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Re: New Twins - Twin Tip Kiteboard Under Construction

Postby Grkite » Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:56 pm

downunder wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:59 am
Which issues? :)

Do you see me flaming? :) The process you see is what it is, the rails are sanded a bit before. I challenge anyone to do it faster and more feasible , cleaner, etc etc. ;)

You can do 1,2,3 with PU. Actually, the epoxy is brittle. The elongation break for epoxies (cheap ones), is way less than PU (shore 90). The PU gives you impact protection as per production boards. Not to mention cost coz PU is way less expensive.

How many bubbles you've got in the rails? That's probably more near wood line simply because this is where air is trapped and degassing (epoxy produces heat, heat will expand air bubbles). There is no way to control this. The air void can be trapped inside no matter what.

The premade PU rails eliminate this, as you see, it's very tight channel. For sure I'm using similar for inserts and fins.
And, it is highly repeatable, which diy pouring is simply not. Forget about the abs, it's too expensive and too much work.

D.
I agree thst looks so clean.Three questions:

1.Where do you find them (PU strips) in that shape...?
2.Did u ever had any issues in the connection of the strips? 3.When shapping..rooted do you have melting of material?

Now for my input in pooring Epoxy in channels...
If the resin epoxy has low viscosity it will go in the porous and everything willbe ok..also unfortunatelly for the messy issue, a good way that iused,was to use the vibration of the phone on the pawlonia sheet and u will see the level going down and more bubbles on the surface ....more epoxy more expensive...yeah i know...but works ok as all the bubbles come on surface that is gonna get shaped/shanded..leaving a perfect surface. Brittlness is quite another issue...there is way to avoid of that ....but is something that I still monitor in a trial board..
But In case you hit the brittle rail ...this is probably fixable....what happens with the PU??

Grkite
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Re: New Twins - Twin Tip Kiteboard Under Construction

Postby Grkite » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:04 pm

fluidity wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:54 pm
Grkite wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:58 pm
Beatiful twins ready to be railed and inserts epoxied.
Is the surface shaped yet?
One of them yes yes but I am remaking the shapping /unthickener table from steel this time ..to ensure acceptable thicknesses of the curves.presicion..and save time ...of the core making.

fluidity
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Re: New Twins - Twin Tip Kiteboard Under Construction

Postby fluidity » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:37 pm

Grkite wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:04 pm
fluidity wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:54 pm
Grkite wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:58 pm
Beatiful twins ready to be railed and inserts epoxied.
Is the surface shaped yet?
One of them yes yes but I am remaking the shapping /unthickener table from steel this time ..to ensure acceptable thicknesses of the curves.presicion..and save time ...of the core making.
I've contemplated that too. Getting my forms laser cut from steel (instead of scroll saw cut from MDF wood) wouldn't be too hard.It's a bit too easy if there are no complex curves though :D

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Re: New Twins - Twin Tip Kiteboard Under Construction

Postby Grkite » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:49 pm

fluidity wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:37 pm
Grkite wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:04 pm
fluidity wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:54 pm

Is the surface shaped yet?
One of them yes yes but I am remaking the shapping /unthickener table from steel this time ..to ensure acceptable thicknesses of the curves.presicion..and save time ...of the core making.
I've contemplated that too. Getting my forms laser cut from steel (instead of scroll saw cut from MDF wood) wouldn't be too hard.It's a bit too easy if there are no complex curves though :D
You know any curve is challenging in case high precion is needed....Steel Will make it with good adjustment ...and calibration. ..
I Am close as the table is completed and the bridges need some adjustment ...but this is quite innovating....And have to solve some issues...
BUT I will finish the one of them. ..as started. .and the second will be shaped with much better accuracy with the new bridges without such..effort ;)

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downunder
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Re: New Twins - Twin Tip Kiteboard Under Construction

Postby downunder » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:31 am

Grkite wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:56 pm
downunder wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:59 am
Which issues? :)

Do you see me flaming? :) The process you see is what it is, the rails are sanded a bit before. I challenge anyone to do it faster and more feasible , cleaner, etc etc. ;)

You can do 1,2,3 with PU. Actually, the epoxy is brittle. The elongation break for epoxies (cheap ones), is way less than PU (shore 90). The PU gives you impact protection as per production boards. Not to mention cost coz PU is way less expensive.

How many bubbles you've got in the rails? That's probably more near wood line simply because this is where air is trapped and degassing (epoxy produces heat, heat will expand air bubbles). There is no way to control this. The air void can be trapped inside no matter what.

The premade PU rails eliminate this, as you see, it's very tight channel. For sure I'm using similar for inserts and fins.
And, it is highly repeatable, which diy pouring is simply not. Forget about the abs, it's too expensive and too much work.

D.
I agree thst looks so clean.Three questions:

1.Where do you find them (PU strips) in that shape...?
2.Did u ever had any issues in the connection of the strips? 3.When shapping..rooted do you have melting of material?

Now for my input in pooring Epoxy in channels...
If the resin epoxy has low viscosity it will go in the porous and everything willbe ok..also unfortunatelly for the messy issue, a good way that iused,was to use the vibration of the phone on the pawlonia sheet and u will see the level going down and more bubbles on the surface ....more epoxy more expensive...yeah i know...but works ok as all the bubbles come on surface that is gonna get shaped/shanded..leaving a perfect surface. Brittlness is quite another issue...there is way to avoid of that ....but is something that I still monitor in a trial board..
But In case you hit the brittle rail ...this is probably fixable....what happens with the PU??
ha, ha

I am asking you which issues?! Since you've mentioned there are issues I would love to hear before I answer :)

Remember, all boards (except some 'weirdo' brands) , snowboards in particular, have a PU rails. Again, before continuing, ask yourself why? So, what does happen with production boards when hit a PU? ;)

fluidity
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Style: Wave, jump
Gear: Old Flexfoil 9, Switch Element V4 11m, Ocean Rodeo Prodigy 7m 2014, Nitro14m v6, Nitro9m v6 12mSwitch Legacy2
DIY CAD ultra-concave wave twintips 1500 and 130mm with my own fin designs. Easy upwind, awesome carving.

Re: New Twins - Twin Tip Kiteboard Under Construction

Postby fluidity » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:07 am

downunder wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:25 am
^
Of course it can be poured. But, the bubbles are the killer with a PU, as we know. Try it, you'll know...Only one big bubble is needed to ruin the project.

What you see on the vid is a poured PU, since I've made them :) Have a look: http://boardbuilders-forum.1077691.n5.n ... d1034.html

As I said, we don't see production boards with epoxy rails. There is a good reason why.
Fascinating link downunder.
Seeing the setup you have, it wouldn't be much more effort to 3D print or hand extrude ABS directly into a wood channel... possibly one prepped with partially cured sticky epoxy resin bonding layer. 3D printers if you haven't used them... are basically like a robot controlled hot melt glue gun, only working with much better temperature control and highly calibrated flow rate control. I'd expect that printing straight into a paulownia channel you'd get reasonable bonding as the paulownia's insulating qualities would allow some time for the bond to form with the sticky hot plastic. Most of the other plastics I wouldn't mess with, PLA would go soft in a car with windows up in tropical areas, PETG might work, nylon would be a pain to bond epoxy to. There are also some hardish printable PU products, this one for example: https://ninjatek.com/products/filaments/armadillo/ Or here's some PETG: https://www.matterhackers.com/store/c/3 ... 20Filament or some ABS from china: https://www.robotdigg.com/product/176/1 ... w-or-green
I think the auto industry has some sort of guns they use to plastic weld with, you can probably use these to directly feed filament into your wood channels so long as you match the filament diameter with the gun feed diameter.


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