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same size FOIL and INFLATABLE - do they pull different ?

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7em
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same size FOIL and INFLATABLE - do they pull different ?

Postby 7em » Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:37 am

hi,

what is your opinion about that ?

what is the difference in the pull power of FOIL and INFLATABLE kites


for example 8m foil kite has the same pull as 11m inflatable kite - is such comparison possible and what is the difference in their performance at all

thank you
:thumb: good luck >>>

tungsten222
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Postby tungsten222 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:55 am

original message expired
Last edited by tungsten222 on Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Tom183
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Postby Tom183 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:46 pm

PMU is a deranged LEI wanna-be-pimp down in AU, doesn't even own a shop just works there - I'm sure his "biased" calculations of relative size are heavily in favor of LEI's...

But I agree that there is no hard-and-fast rule, due to differences in aspect ratio and different efficiencies at opposite ends of the windrange.

However, generally speaking, VERY generally speaking, foils are slightly more powerful (5-10%?) than the same size bow, and (like bows) are noticably more powerful (30-40%?) than the same size C.

So, roughly speaking, an 8m foil like the P3 should be pretty close to a 9m bow, and have about the same power/low-end as an 11m C (but, like the bow, way more top-end). This is assuming all 3 kites are in roughly the same ballpark as far as aspect ratio and whatnot.

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gideonlow
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Postby gideonlow » Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:20 pm

Tom183 wrote:PMU is a deranged LEI wanna-be-pimp down in AU, doesn't even own a shop just works there - I'm sure his "biased" calculations of relative size are heavily in favor of LEI's...

But I agree that there is no hard-and-fast rule, due to differences in aspect ratio and different efficiencies at opposite ends of the windrange.

However, generally speaking, VERY generally speaking, foils are slightly more powerful (5-10%?) than the same size bow, and (like bows) are noticably more powerful (30-40%?) than the same size C.

So, roughly speaking, an 8m foil like the P3 should be pretty close to a 9m bow, and have about the same power/low-end as an 11m C (but, like the bow, way more top-end). This is assuming all 3 kites are in roughly the same ballpark as far as aspect ratio and whatnot.
Tom,

If by "foil" you mean Flysurfer, you may be right. Peter Lynn kites are generally less powerful than the same size tube kite. Since I do so much side-by-side riding with pro-kiters at my local spot, I've developed a pretty good sense for this. My Venom 16 has about the same power as a 12M bow or a 14M "C". The difference may be slightly less as I tend to ride on shorter lines (20-23 Meter) while the rest are usually on 27M lines. My (albeit limited) experience riding Bow and "C" kites seems to bear this out as well since when I do get the chance, most of the rest of the factors are the same (my weight, board, etc).

The Scorpion appears to have improved the ratio somewhat . . . . maybe pulling even with "C" kites and a couple of meter closer on the Bows (at those sizes). This could be simply due to quicker turning and faster flying speed, but I don't yet have enough experience on it to be sure.

One thing is for sure . . . . nearly ALL of the new premium 2007 kites are light-years ahead compared to ANYTHING you could buy 3 years ago.

Cheers,

Gideon

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Tom183
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Postby Tom183 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:12 pm

I (like most people) refer to Peter Lynn's (and similar designs) as ARCs, and refer to Flysurfers (and other bridled soft kites) as "foils". I understand that PL's are soft kites like FS, but traditional usage of the terms are PL=ARC, FS=foil. "Foil" dates back to "airfoil" and has no meaning as far as the construction of a kite - all kites are "foils" in that sense of the word, but nobody calls LEI's that anymore.

If you want to get technical, I'm referring to "closed-cell, semi-flat, non-rigid, twin-skin, fully bridled" kites, while you're referring to "closed-cell, C-shaped, non-rigid, twin-skin, non-bridled" kites. I don't have time to type all that shit every time, so if it's an ARC you're talking about, please call it an ARC...

Baboon

Postby Baboon » Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:42 am

Tom183 wrote:. I don't have time to type all that shit every time, .
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ROFPMWL x100....How would anybody know that with the non stop drivel / keyboard diarrhoea and endless fantasy that you constantly spout on just about every topic on every forum and which you generally know sweet FA about. You really are a prize idiot and i am sure there is a village that is missing you you arrogant twat!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Tom183
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Postby Tom183 » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:28 am

Ha! I knew that would draw out some jackass who only knows how to type smileys :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

FredBGG
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Postby FredBGG » Fri Apr 13, 2007 5:39 am

Generaly speaking a brideled foil like a flysurfer Psycho 3 or a Speed 1 or 2 has more power per square meter than a Bow or SLE. This is because the flysurfer having a full bridel is much flatter and has a higher projected surface area.

Peter Lynn kites are pretty deep C shaped foils and have less power than a bow/sle and a little bit less than the better C-kite Leis. Peter Lynn however are very good gust absorbers, and very stable.

Here are a couple of photos to show the difference between flat foil and a "flat" bow kite.
Attachments
Speed 10 Flat.jpg
Speed 10 Flat.jpg (22.97 KiB) Viewed 1392 times
Flat Kites.jpg
Flat Kites.jpg (36.35 KiB) Viewed 1394 times

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ScottM
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Postby ScottM » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:46 pm

ey Fred, I think the Crossbow is a bit flatter than the image shown, in reality it's probably more than the image you have a less than the one I've just put up. That in flight speed sure looks sweet!! :thumb:
Attachments
flat_kites_122.jpg
flat_kites_122.jpg (76.02 KiB) Viewed 1345 times

BJkitesurf
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Postby BJkitesurf » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:12 pm

second to Scott :thumb:
Fred, stop cheating :evil:


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