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Bow Bashers, Haters and Lovers

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ScottM
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Bow Bashers, Haters and Lovers

Postby ScottM » Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:05 pm

Just a few of the comments from the bashers... :x :x :argue: :x :x :x :x :argue: :x :x :x :x :argue: :x :x :x

AdrenalinDriven wrote:People are completely fooling themselves if they think bows are better for freestyle than C kites. Thats just ridiculous. Bow kites are just hype. Thats it. Ive used both and C kites kick the shit out of bows.
simonm wrote:Just goes to show the market is driven by marketing not performance, simplicity or safety.
ian c wrote:
More c shaped for freestylers - more bow for newcomers I reckon
windmaker wrote:Perhaps it has more to do with attitude than pure kite performance. Riders trying to push their limits mostly use C' whereas bow riders tend to concentrate more on their safety and well being. As far as pro's (Len10) are concerned one must note that it takes a higher skill level to appreciate a C shape as oppose to the "out of the box" feel of a bow.
windmaker wrote:The better you are the less you need a bow. The more you suck the more you appreciate it.
Kevin Salter wrote: C kites out perform Bows in a number of key areas, and if you dont know what those areas are , then go and ride what ever spins your wheels 8)
SS Kiter wrote:
DON´T BELIVE THE (BOW) HYPE!!!!!
surfingwithkites wrote:Trying to draw an analogy between C kites and 2 line kites is stupid. There is no connection. Bows are not any where near the equivalent of the "four line revolution". It's the argument of the desperate. Bows are fading into hybrids as we speak.
... pure bows... not hybrids took the show!

windmaker wrote:Will pro's ever use flat kites in competition ? With there superior power control and safety, flat kites make kitesurfing easier and safer thus less extreme. Will a pro on a bow kite ever have the same credibility as one on a C shape when confronted to a jury?
...apparently :bye:

surfingwithkites wrote: One fact is that no one is going to win the pkra or kpwt on a bow. just accept that the design has limitations just as C kites do.
... sure ...really really sure??? :lol:

windmaker wrote:SLE kites are primaraly used by riders with safety in mind and that is why pro's don't use them. Can anyone honestly say that he purchased a SLE kite simply because of it's superior performance ? If so, he is part of a very small minority.
The better you are, the less you need a SLE, the more you need the drive and feed back of a C shape.
AdrenalinDriven wrote:
haha alright buddy lets see you kick my ass at freestyle. no chance my friend. nobody who rides contest and freestyle in their right mind would ride bow kites. They're not meant for this. They depower... great. Get some balls man. Good luck
SS Kiter wrote:Scott

It seems to me that you have a full time job trying to convince every body that bows are better than Cs.
Why are u so concerned about this? Must be some business around it...

This guy u talked about, Petr Tyushkevich, he flies bows with modified bars. Can you state me wich PKRA event has he won? Probably this poor guy has no other choice as a Cabrinha Rider. I bet if he was sponsored by any other brand he would be flying Cs. :thumb:
.... just tried to open minds and show that high performance bows with great riders can compete! :roll:

AdrenalinDriven wrote:When bow kites came out a few years ago there was soooooo much hype. You would look through a kiting magazine or something and it was ALL adds for bows and most of the C adds were just gone. I think somebody may have forgotten the fact that none of the great riders of the world were using them in competition, I mean their companies were making them so of course they had to endorse them but I mean its clearly not like they were meant for performance riding.
AdrenalinDriven wrote: You're a dumbass dude, the hands down best riders in the world are Aaron Hadlow (fusion2), Ruben Lenten (fuel), Kevin Langeree (torch), Cesar Portas (vegas) and Alvaro Onieva (yarga NOT in the super gay SLE mode). They could kick the balls out of your little dominican kids and they ALL ride C kites.
... why such hate!! :o

vietkiter wrote:
Bow kites are not suited for wakestyle comp... so that's is why Cab riders do so poorly... that is why Cab is trying to invent a new form of comp more suited for the bow kite... racing oriented...

Remember the original promise that Cab pro just needed time to get used to bows? Well that certainly was a lie as Cab pro didn't like the bow relative to C just like they didn't care for the dumb bell weights of Recon battens either...

As to big air? that's definitely more fun and exciting on a C kite!
... any chance to bash a Cabrinha?? :roll:

windmaker wrote:okay, Sols mention one rider (any brand) that actually competes using a flat kite and prove it if you can.
.... lots to choose from!! :wink:


Just a few of the comments from the lovers and those with open minds... :peace: :respect1: :peace: :respect1:

Toby wrote:You see many bow riders doing great tricks on bows.
And they also ride the PKRA and score pretty high (e.g. Alex Soto, Petr T. etc).

Let's wait and see what they use in the 2007 season!
JON MODICA wrote:i disagree. many pro riders ride bows. just to name a few you might know
Damien Leroy-cabrinha
Clinton Bolton-Best
Ben Wilson-Slingshot
Andy Hurdman Best
Cameran Dietrich-cabrinha
....et cetera

the pro's who dont ride bows mainly due it because there just not used to them. Making the change takes alot of time. It took months for me to feel that my riding was up to par on a bow. (atleast 4)

Jon-
Stone wrote:Can the same tricks be done on a bow vs a C kite?
The answer is yes.

Are there some advantages and trade-offs between using a bow and a C kite? Yes

More depower/power on the bow kites make it more difficult (not impossible) to unhook and throw tricks while at the same time being able to ride hooked in comfortably. The pulley system that most companies use for their bow kites also greatly increase the turning speeds of those kites, which also makes it very hard to do some unhooked moves. Of course, I've seen people throw down crazy moves on a bow kite, and I've seen people throw down crazy moves on C kites.

In the end, it really comes down to personal preference, which is what it always comes down to. You should see some of the looks I get when I ride a pulley bar when I'm travelling. People can't understand why I'd ride one, but at the same time, I don't understand how people ride around with the bar moving everywhere, and not being able to grab in the center of the bar. So for me, it's important to have the same pull when I'm hooked in or not. For someone else, it probably doesn't make a difference.

So, in the end, though lots of pros are going to want to keep riding C kites, because that's what they're used to, the worldcup riders will probably be pressured into it by sponsors, or by younger riders who have only ridden a bow kite doing the same tricks they only do on C kites. Does that make sense?

Jason
Toby wrote:I think so too, it is all a question of getting used to it.
And surely, if you are used to C, a bow does not feel the same, so you may not like it.
But there will be soon a generation who just rode/ride on bows, and they will beat the shit out of us!

Greets
Toby
Drizzle wrote:yea that wasnt a rumor. cabrinha is just moving with the future. C kites were sick at the time but the flat kites are gonna make kiteboardin sweeter.

i was actually the last person to wanna touch flat kites. but i believed in the concept from the start. to be able to depower your kite way more, and have a kite that almost wants to relaunch on its own. i fukin hate swimming. its just that at the very early stages of development the kites didnt feel good. but thats all changin and now dem shits feel dope. i've been testing some prototypes of the new kites coming down the pipes and they are sick. and the design of flat kites will keep getting better with time and R&D. but i still have my C kites at home. for sentimental reasons. :roll:
Drizzle wrote:i was pretty bummed when we stopped making the C kites as well cause i got pretty attached to them. i agree that right now there are some ppl that still want to ride C's but soon everyone will be on the flat ones just cause they will do everything a C does and some as i said before.
sols wrote:
I'm proud to be part of Cab. I remember when bows came out most people said it would be the end of Cab but time shows different. I can count only a couple of companies that don't have a flat kite in their range. Most have 2 and more in a years time. Some known C models are transforming into flat and so. And it's still the beginning. Wait till higher aspect bow kites appear and then C will start to dissapear.
..... EH high aspect bow stole the show ...Soleas words ring true!!


The Jess-Man wrote:Flat kites are the way of the furture. More efficient, smaller sizes, larger range, awesome depower.

I didn't believe it either, but I've converted. They might no be what you want just yet but they will get there.

Don't forget it's not an over night change. Everything takes time.

J.
Phillipp wrote:In the OZ nationals we had a Switchblade rider among the top 3. He is not forced to ride either for Cabrinha nor use the Switchblade. These kites were his own choice.

It took him some time to transition all the moves from C to Bow. But he now has at least the same repertoire and is leveraging some of the unique Bow features to his advantage.

P
FredMurphy wrote:Give it a while. The current pros are all used to C kites and taking time to adjust. Also, the tricks that score in the comp are based on what works with C kites. When the kids that are gettng into the sport now progress, they will have learnt with bows and may well be doing tricks that aren't possible on a C.

piedroporto wrote:All cabrinha riders where on Switchblades at the 1st PKRA event at Venezuela - Coche.


and althought none of them (cabrinha riders) are very known, my guess is that Bows will probably be gettin better and better till the time people will simply choose which kite they like better. either C-shape or Bow, but performance won't be a problem for bows.
:thumb:
ScottM wrote:
It seems to always be the case that some guys feel the need to bash bow/sle designs, check the historical evidence and see how many posts are started by someone bashing bow/sle kites..... :roll:


Funny thing is no one has said hey are Flexifoil C's really what should be in the PKRA, as based on the last 3 year results, they are the only truely competitive kite on the market and if you ride anything else you're just wasting your time? :roll:


The reality is you've got 4 top guys who would kick ass on any kite and these guys happen to ride on C kite models. You've also got one or two guys who use a bow and well they've showed that they can make the mark from time to time and place above a large percentage of other competitors (invariably on C's)


Anyway time will tell, Cabrinha's wakestyle kite suited for PKRA style kiting is on it's first generation (second generation as a bow total) and has placed well at times as posted below. In fact in the comps where Alex Soto knocked out both Hadlow and Zoon, based on the logic of the first few posters one can argue that Hadlow and Zoon would have been better to have been on Cabrinha bows! :lol:


I'd say being different and going a another route is great, as it's open minded and allows endless possibilities. :thumb:
Pros and Bows...

Alex Soto rides exclusively Cabrinha bow kites and recently placed 4th in Cabarete knocking out both Hadlow and Zoon in head to head competition. Was it luck? A few events later in Germany he went head to head with Hadlow again and ended with the same result. His quest for the top in Germany stopped at... Peter Tyushkevich, yet another Cabrinha bow rider. Peter just finished 3rd at the PKRA finals in Brazil yesterday and will finish 6th overall.

In short, I think that the reason that you don't see many riders on bows in competitions yet is simply that only Cabrinha had competitive bow kites up until now. You will start to see other riders that are sponsored by other brands at the top on bow kites in the near future. This being said, it is clearly not the kite winning the freestyle comps, but these results clearly show that the kite surely doesn't limit the opportunity to win.

Kent
Hunqi wrote:
SS Kiter wrote: Can´t any Cab´s riders at top positions!
Who gives a sh!te what kites are dominating @ PKRA
that's only about who's got bigger ball to show off :!:
C-Types are outdated and unsafe, death threatening for the recriational rider
and already should be illegal :evil:
The recriational riders don't care about this hype and got what they wanted,
so they ride what puts smile on their face at the end of the day.

Just my $.02... :bye:
at the PKRA Germany you saw some bows, and they were all great riders; Alex Soto, Petr .... who scored 2nd, and an italian rider, who rode very smoothly. I'm working on the video and will let you know once it is online...and you won't see a difference in the riding with bow or whatever else.

Adam Koch is riding more waves now, therefore he uses the Shockwave as ultimate weapon.
Peter_Frank wrote: It is only a matter of time (short time in fact...), as recently are some of the top riders changing to Bow kites now.

Not the majority I think - but the fact that some chooses to change now, is a sign of the "new era" coming.

With extremely stable and depowerable C kites, and extremely fast and powerful Bow kites :thumb:

Kindly, Peter Frank
Toby wrote:you do see bows in comps (e.g. PKRA)! And they rip and score very good results!
ToastSYN wrote:I wouldn't for a second feel "sorry" for the cabrinha riders. If I could I would get some footage of Jesse and Shawn Richman tearing it up on bows. I personnally hate bows but I keep myself quiet after watching these kids shred. Though they prolly could ride anything and do it, the fact that they can do it on bows shows the potential of the design

Toast



.... if you remember other "famous"quotes..... it would be great to see them!! :wink:
Last edited by ScottM on Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:23 am, edited 3 times in total.

Dwight
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Postby Dwight » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:08 pm

Wow, that post took hard work. :thumb:

Does anybody recall the war of terminology when windsurfing was invented? We were not allowed to use the term windsurfer because of patents. Eventually the patent expired and all boards were known as windsurfers.

We are entering a similar phase in kiting. There are kites out there with sweep that don't call themselves bows. Not following the patent exactly, doesn't mean a kite is any less of a great kite.

Back on topic. In 08, bows (hybrids and flat) take another step forward in bar "feel". The gap between C kites is gone in this area. All we are left with is differences in power thru the turn. While bows out perform Cs in all other areas.

Bows win 10:1 if you break down the performance categories

1) Lift
2) Grunt
3) Speed
4) Upwind
5) Top end
6) Gust absorption
7) Relaunch
8 ) Safety
9) Bar Feel
10) Power thru the turn

C fans shouldn't dismiss this as nonsense until they try the best of the best bows. :peace:

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ScottM
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Postby ScottM » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:17 pm

Thanks Dwight, but I knew it was coming one day... so I added radical comments to my favs!! :wink:

But it's true, open mindedness is the key. Companies who embrace change and have vision reap the rewards. Sure first or second go they might not get it right, but with time good things come of it! So far my two favorite kites are the SB2 and the Rhino flat kite, both so different but yet so fun! :thumb:

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Postby Bain » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:17 pm

Dwight wrote: C fans shouldn't dismiss this as nonsense until they try the best of the best bows. :peace:
So, in your opinion which bows are "best of the best"

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Postby Dwight » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:58 pm

Bain wrote:
Dwight wrote: C fans shouldn't dismiss this as nonsense until they try the best of the best bows. :peace:
So, in your opinion which bows are "best of the best"
I'd rather not start a mud slinging contest. You just need to demo a LOT of kites. There are bigger differences in bows, than C kites.

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Postby windyboy » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:38 pm

Look at all the pkra riders for example why are they not ridng bow kites? Because all the people that ride bow kites are in 19th place and all the people in better positions ride C kites. Check it out for yourself http://www.kiteworldtour.com/index.php? ... 1&gender=1

Bows do not jump higher. Have you seen a bow kite jump as high as lenten. NO. What does Toby use for example or Alex aka gumball use they use C kites but all they do is just go big.Turning speed of bows is delayed because of the pulleys on them which makes them unresponsive. Depower I agree they win for sure. But there is another bad part about the depower I can't tell you how many bow kites I have seen invert in the past year or so. Also do not forget that bow kites do not 100% depower only a leashed 5th line kite does. :wink: Looking at all of this bows are just hype. Thats my .2 cent

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Postby Pike » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:29 pm

what tickles me is that those 19th placed bow riders are a billion times better riders than windyboy, who's out in chicago saying look at me, look at me on my C, I'm a dude , I'm the dude...!'.

Bows are great kites.
Hybrids are great kites.
C's are great kites.

They give us choice, thanks all you kite designers - keep doin what ya doin! :thumb:

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Postby Rockstar » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:43 pm

I can't believe that ScottM went to all that trouble??

What for,why be so defensive?

I occasionally put 2 cents worth in,usually with idiots like Experienced Player,who is trolling more than anything!

But,I don't really care what the few remaining C kite fanatics think of Bows.

I know that I get much better performance,more power ,more depower,instant relaunch etc.

If they have a problem with Bows,well,thats their problem!

I'm happy with MY kite,thats what counts.

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Postby panchito » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:54 pm

Its funny , these type of discussions only take place in forums but never at the beach .

Saludos

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ScottM
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Postby ScottM » Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:25 pm

Wasn't much trouble Rockstar, I kept note of topics cause I knew they'd come back to haunt the usual suspects.... :D

But yeah I think ride what you enjoy and just work on personal goals rather than be swayed by what's cool.... :thumb:
Last edited by ScottM on Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.


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