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03 black tip 17 / 02 airblast 11.8

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Guttorm
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03 black tip 17 / 02 airblast 11.8

Postby Guttorm » Thu Jun 12, 2003 11:25 pm

So does anybody know how the 03 black tip 17 compairs to last years 11.8 airblast that I am using now, is it any better?

:) 102 kg Guttorm,
board: Mutant 5.5 & Vari pro 138.

Nick-san
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Postby Nick-san » Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:47 am

I really didn't like last years big Black Tips, but after one amazing session on a BT 17, I have to say that they've made an amazing improvement on this kite. Fast moving for it's size, comparible to Rhino 2s in low end power (I ride the R2 16m), and good depower and upwind. It has a lot more power than last years AB 11.8. At your weight, you should be able to go out in a couple of knots less wind.

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Peter_Frank
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Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Jun 13, 2003 1:08 am

Nick-san wrote:I really didn't like last years big Black Tips, but after one amazing session on a BT 17, I have to say that they've made an amazing improvement on this kite. Fast moving for it's size, comparible to Rhino 2s in low end power (I ride the R2 16m), and good depower and upwind. It has a lot more power than last years AB 11.8. At your weight, you should be able to go out in a couple of knots less wind.
I think you are right on some of your points.

But whats the downsides ?

I mean - you cant get it all in one kite !

It has to be on the cost of something else :roll:

You cant have a kite with R2 low end, and better depower and upwind ability etc. etc. - this is not possible.

If it was so - then this kite would soon be copied by ALL kite companies, and kiters with this kite would win contest easily, and every kite to date would be horribly wrong designed...

And I am sure this is not the case.

Be a little realistic, thank you.

Otherwise it is just the "biggest air" again and again and again and.... like seen on so many commercials for new kites.

It is not my intention to be "dissing" your post - just saying honestly that there are something important missing or wrong here ?

experienced1
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Postby experienced1 » Fri Jun 13, 2003 2:21 am

I agree with Nick-San....the '03 Cabrinha BTs are AWESOME! the 17BT does turn faster than the R2, has much better depower, the same low end, and feels like it is easier to go up wind (that's the way it feels to me). The R2 has a stronger/steadier pull. At 71kg, it is easier to dump power on the Cabrinha BT than the R2

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Postby Hernan » Fri Jun 13, 2003 9:08 am

The BT 17 is a great kite, better overall than an AB 11.8.
It is not near as powerfull as R2s, sure. They have good range and top end. Some jellyfishing at big sizes. Fast for its size. Nice, good (period) construction.

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niko
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Postby niko » Fri Jun 13, 2003 11:13 am

I agree with Peter, he is right.

until right now none of the kites matches with the Airblast 11.8 considering the deopwerpossiblities you have with that kite.

In gusty winds a Rhino2 16, 18 odr 20 is deadly: you are totally overpowered if the wind increases for about only few knotws (3 - 5).

For example: you have 13 knots and 85 kg, you use the Rhino18: the kite likely goes upfwind (Rhino kites generally hate going upwind).

The Wind increases up to 18 Knotes in a gust: you were fighting with the kite and your boardedge.

That is the moment where an Airblast still is flyable relaxed. And on top during these gusts you can celebrate extended airtime with a smile on your face.

It is just a question of taste what you prefer.

Rhnio and BT cannot have the same depower than a french kite (Skoop, Mach, AB).

greets
niko

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MissionMan
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Postby MissionMan » Fri Jun 13, 2003 12:23 pm

I disagree Peter.

The 2003 BT has decent low down grunt and high end, and I think this is a natural progression of kites as they improve. There are a number of reasons for this including overall improvement of 03 kites, but items like the faster turning speed of the 2003 kites has improved the ability to generate power on the kite.

MY 2002 BT, had a wind range of 10-18, the 17m BT is better at around 8-18 although I haven't tested top end 100%. It feels at least as much depowerable as the old BT.

BTW, on the airblast, depower may have been great on the 11.8 but the low end was utter crap, especially if you took the bridles off.

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Postby Hernan » Fri Jun 13, 2003 2:36 pm

niko wrote:I agree with Peter, he is right.

until right now none of the kites matches with the Airblast 11.8 considering the deopwerpossiblities you have with that kite.

In gusty winds a Rhino2 16, 18 odr 20 is deadly: you are totally overpowered if the wind increases for about only few knotws (3 - 5).

For example: you have 13 knots and 85 kg, you use the Rhino18: the kite likely goes upfwind (Rhino kites generally hate going upwind).

The Wind increases up to 18 Knotes in a gust: you were fighting with the kite and your boardedge.

That is the moment where an Airblast still is flyable relaxed. And on top during these gusts you can celebrate extended airtime with a smile on your face.

It is just a question of taste what you prefer.

Rhnio and BT cannot have the same depower than a french kite (Skoop, Mach, AB).

greets
niko
Hey Niko. the AB WAS a great kite. Is a 2000 design with some construction improvements. The BT is by far a most updated design with MORE range and stability and way faster than the AB.
In 13 knots and 85 kg you rocket upwind with a R2 18 and go high too.
Rhinos pull more than ABs but the "fun", usable range is good.

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Postby Nick-san » Fri Jun 13, 2003 6:06 pm

Fast moving for it's size, COMPARIBLE to Rhino 2s in low end power (I ride the R2 16m), and GOOD depower and upwind.
You cant have a kite with R2 low end, and better depower and upwind ability etc. etc. - this is not possible.
Wow, Peter, don't bite my head off :)
Please re-read my post noting the capitals. I neither said it has the same low end, or better de-power and upwind. However, based on my ONE session on the kite I would say that this may be the case.
But whats the downsides ?
Don't know yet. Just looking at the kite, I would say the construction quality is not as high as the R2.

And for the books, I'm now a North sponsored rider but don't have one Cabrinha kite in my shop. You can't get any unbiased than that!

Peter, if you get the chance, try the BT17 out. You may be as pleasantly surprised as me!

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niko
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Postby niko » Fri Jun 13, 2003 6:33 pm

MissionMan wrote:BTW, on the airblast, depower may have been great on the 11.8 but the low end was utter crap, especially if you took the bridles off.
I disagree, Mission Man.

I believe you should fly an Airblast with and without the bridles. Without the bridels ist gets much more handy: you can feel where the kite is during jumping and you widen the depowerrange for about many knots:

the bridles were pulled by the wind from the front to the back lines: what made the kite very uncomfortable during high winds.

you are much better off without bridels.

I fly my whole AB Range (I got every size) without bridles. Why sholud I do that if there would be any advantage.


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