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Chicken loop removal

Postby Guest » Wed Mar 05, 2003 11:12 pm

Any tips on how to remove the chicken loop so I can instead connect a swivel lock directly to my wichard QR.....So I can shorten the distance from arms to bar.

Thanks

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Peter_Frank
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Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Mar 05, 2003 11:30 pm

Eeeh - ?

You just ditch the existing loop, and take a new 4 or 5 or 6 mm line, mount it on your trim system (whatever that is - you can always tie the line on almost all std. systems).
Through your bar hole or bracket, and tie it to a ring to fit into the Wichard.
Or tie a loop and use this one directly into the Wichard.

It is so simple to do !

Do you have your safety leash on the Wichard, or on your harness/spreader ?

If you have it on your harness (so you can't spin the bar), then you don't need a Wichard at all.
Just tie a piece of rope to the loop, and mount it around your spreader (like a larks head), and you have max. trim range, a good release (the one on your existing system), and a fixed connection giving you room for the fixed loop in your hook !

Much better IMO, simpler, safer, and cheaper.

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Postby WildThang » Wed Mar 05, 2003 11:40 pm

I have a redundant system of a 2673 attached to either a Naish QR loop or a Wipika QR loop.

I think I'm gonna replace the Naish one with just line. That way I can dial it to the length I want as well as do away with the potential troubles of the Naish loop pre-releasing or my Wichard hanging up on the tube as has been reported.

Haven't decided what to do with the one on the Throttle bar though...

Anyone have thoughts about whether I would improve my release system or worsen it?

-Eric

fokiten

Postby fokiten » Wed Mar 05, 2003 11:44 pm

Man I got verbal diareha today
can stop tossin my 2 cents in

Beware if you attach any metal that stays with the bar,,,it'll (could) smack you in yo face,,at high speed,,on a bailout
Second I hate those f-en rings,,,,how you gonna rehook,,when
that oft touted hair triggered f-en shackle pops,,,and leaves you full powered and hanging on for dear life????
Huh???
loose the c-loop?,,think bout it first,,,

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Postby WildThang » Wed Mar 05, 2003 11:54 pm

That's a good question. I was thinking of skipping the metal ring and going line to shackle direct. Just tie a small loop off the end.

But Fo's right about when you bail on your bar and deploy to leash. You can get a big mess and not be able to gather your shit and relaunch.

I remember being op'd once and forgot to shackle in, just hooked into the C-loop. When I jumped and luffed my kite, the loop fell out of the hook and I got instant power up. In fact it was going so crazy, I couldn't hook back in to depower. I bailed to the leash and couldn't reach the bar and even if I did, it would be at full power when I got it, right? Man, by the time I was washed ashore, my lines were all wind-knotted and messed up.

I think in those conditions, when you bail to the leash, don't expect to "re-ride" at all!

-Eric

Don't know what I could have done different. Just grab the C-loop and shackle in?

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Postby WILCO » Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:44 am

a good release (the one on your existing system), and a fixed connection giving you room for the fixed loop in your hook !
The Naish CL isn't a good GR, neither is the Wipika, and many other pin QR's. The one from flysurfer IS good. Haven't you read the tests, about the force that's needed to open QR's under load?? Under 2000 N load(not even 200 kg, so not even 3 times your weight), the Naish and Wipi QR's need, about 500 N (50 kg) of opening force. Do you think you're gonna pull 50 kg's (or more!) with 2 fingers in the release loop, beeing dragged at high speeds :!: No you won't.

So just use a QR CL (preferably the flysurfer's or other good releasing QR's). And schakle it in to a wichard. The chances of the wichard not opening are much slimmer than chances of not being able top open the CL QR. So if something goes wrong with the wichard, you'll be able to (try) to open the CL QR.

And what was the danger of metal to your face, since the rope of the wichard isn''t long, and can't reach your face..... Oh ya mean with a ring, that it can slap your head. SO that's another reason to use a (hard) plastic CL QR.

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Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:39 pm

I don't give much for the test conclusions.
In fact I think they are wrong (IMO).

Who says the objective is to get as low a force as possible ?

Only the authors of the test :-?

If you go through it carefully, you'll see that most pin releases don't change the needed force, whether they are loaded or unloaded.
THATS whats important !

AND - you need to move a pin release a certain distance, before it opens - this means you will never risk opening it undeliberately !

If I have the choice - I would anytime use, and recommend the pin releases.

I've tested these under load too, with no problems whatsoever.

The Wichard f.ex, is IMO one of the worst, as it can open so easily by mistake.

I want a long travel for my quick release, whatever system is used, to avoid opening by accident.

This is why I try to avoid the Wichard type, allthough in some cases it is the only solution.

The pin release seems very reliable too, it never changes its characteristics (like other mechanical releases might).

If our releases opened without us wanting to, we would for sure see more severe accidents - as dropping out from your depower when in the air is very dangerous, for you and your fellow riders !

I know that I might be quite alone in my point of view - but that is my opinion.

I mean - if we had an extreme amount of backup safety releases - then I think we would in fact see more small accidents because of "premature" releases...
Many might think this is wrong - but I honestly believe that the releases can be "over"done, meaning that especially the really good rider will never use these !

And I think this is important - to make systems that the pros will use also, and we feel/know is safe and reliable and predictable at the same time.

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Postby RickI » Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:39 pm

Well said Peter. I too would like to move away from more complex release mechanisms to something simplier, potentially more reliable and less costly such as a good pin release. I haven't had difficulty with the 2002 Wipika pin releases that I have used on some of my bars for almost a year. Then again, I have heard about some pins bending on other models substantially increasing the load required to effect release to an unacceptably high level (couldn't readily be released). I have yet to see that with the model I am using but reports on these pin releases are still slow to come in. Hopefully, with time pin releases will be proven by experience to be a superior choice in release selection.

fokiten

Postby fokiten » Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:26 pm

Peter for sure your not alone,
I think per-release is mucho more possible and so more dangerious than
using a pin shackle,,and risking that one in a thousand mega load situation,,
just my take,,,on that pin release c-loop,,,I made my c-loop out of heavy stiff line,,vinal covered,,,for the no pinch quality,,,this ment I had to attach lighter line to it fo my cleat,,,,Why not do a pin release,,,so i did and just a body wieght load,,,,and a thick nail in a pair o plyers,,,Damn
I could not pull the pin out,,,,so Im not to keen on the pin c-loops,,mine of coarse was rude and crude,,plus the fat rope made for a lot more bering surface for friction,,,,
On the smack yo face deal,,the ring might not be so bad,,,but for you all who have the ring on the bar and the shackle on the depower,,,,your
fuc-n nuts
think about it

One more thing,,,,,I ride fusion seat,,and they got this tab on the hook where you clip the harness straps to the speader bars ends,,,I ran a spectra line through my welded pin release's split ring though this harness strap tab and sheathed it in vinal tubing,,,,e,g, quick draw shackle handle,,
I tell ya this gives me a warm fuzzy feeling,,,I can out draw any ball dangler on the beach,,,,If their is a safety up-grade this is it,,

My swivel don't swivel no more,,,so-what,,,,I love the secure feeling this quick draw gives me,,,,,Plus I get to see the Fear in the ball danglers eyes when I out draw them and say "bang" your dead
fokiten

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Postby WILCO » Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:40 pm

I've used a Maui Magic (exactly the same as Wipi) QR, under my body weight, I wasn't able to open the bitch at all. So I don't think we're talking here about a load that occurs one in a million. Fo, do ye mean you use a schakle now, with a bigger handle attached to you spreader bar? (won't that pre-release even more?) Or do you only use a pin-qr, with a big handle now?


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