Noname Kiteboarding

[gonesailin]

Got this message on my local kite forum today (see below). As a shop owner and instructor I have yet to manage to respond in a way that's even mildly appropriate for minors or other sensitive ears. Of course, having watched the evolution of the sport for 10 years or so I'm a bit biased about the need for R&D, magazines, videos, professional instructions and such, so I thought I'd put it out there to the rest of the kiteboarding community (or at least the kiteforum community).

Many of us thought that the introduction of the internet based, direct to the consumer approach of Best would kill local shops. I think that while this has happened in a number of markets, there are still shops that didn't go heavy into internet sales that have survived (& Best has changed their strategy to include more shops). There were others who thought that the Best strategy would bring down the cost of kites in general. This certainly hasn't happened at the MSRP level.

So what do you think about these companies that spring up whenever someone is able to convince the factory manager in China to sell them a container of re-branded kites based on another company's design? Is it cool with you as long as it saves you a buck, or should we care about supporting the brands that built this sport?

While that last question could sound purely sarcastic, it's not. I'm honestly trying to figure out where the line is drawn, and if I'm out of touch with the rest of you guys. For some reason I'm kind of OK with the music sharing sites out there (although I don't use them), but bothered by these no-name kite companies. I wouldn't buy stolen merchandise, but have copied movies from my friends.


COPIED MESSAGE BELOW (altered to protect the not-so-innocent)

> I have one extra NEW 2008 10m XXXXXXX(Brand) XXXXXXXX(Model) with bar and lines for $360 This
> kite is similar to a best Waroo. Best, slingshot and XXXXX(Brand) kites are all made
> in the same factory. I have no idea why these kites are so inexpensive. The
> build quality, shape, features and warranty are above par. I you want to help
> pay plane tickets for Pros to go to Africa witch is a cool thing to do if you
> have the money you should buy a different name brand:) Check out the web site
> www.XXXXXXXXXXXkiteboarding.com


So, what do you think? Would you buy or promote these guys? I'm looking forward to reading your responses.

[Toby]

what I have learned in life: once you want to save money, you will end up paying more. And this is in all areas you buy things. Nowadays I buy less things, but then of higher quality.

In 2002 I bought a China kite...I used it once...it flew like shit and the front tube seam started to open up...warranty?

Once it comes to warranty issues that company can't afford to do a lot. A big company is rather able to exchange a kite...

Lessons learned!

[tungsten222]

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[tautologies]

IMO there are three aspects to the matter:

1. "infringing intellectual property" (by buying a kite that is marketed as a remake of another kite): the question of intellectual property is NOT my responsibility. I have no possibility to verify if a kite sold to me infringes patents or designs. The best example for this are all those "legit" kite brands that sold kites infringing the Legainoux patents and were fined for it later. It's not my job as a customer to ensure other people's intellectual property. I have to respect it though, which means, if there's an obvious infringement (like buying a 5$ ROLEX), I am aware that I can be fined for buying it and the good can be taken away from me. But in the case of a kite, it's far from obvious if there's an infringement or not.

Actually you do have a responsibility. IF you believe it is an infringement, then you do have the responsibility to not buy. If you do not think it is, then you'll be okay.

2. Supporting brands that built this sport: No. Would not want to buy a Wipika kite. Supporting brands that build that sport: Again no, because IMO it's not brands building that sport. Brands are businesses following solely their financial interest. I'm a buyer following my set of personal interests. No responsibility for the well being of brands from my side. IF I wanted to support the ones who built and build that sport, I would get in touch with the pioneers of this sport, and the current designers, and ask them if they need help for any project they are working on. That's persons, not entities.

Do you really think that this is some big industry just following the money? I don't. I really do not think there is enough money in the sport for it. I don;t think we as customers have a responsibility for the brands per se, but I do think there is much more of reciprocity between customers and companies in this sport than you seem to indicate. This sport just doesn't have enough customers to be only money. Remember that these companies aren't some large conglomerate businesses. They are pretty small, and I'd say the core of each of the companies are probably less then 10 people.

3. Buying a kite from a company you don't know anything about ("no name"). That is taking a risk, up to you, if you think it's worth taking the risk go for it. But you always take a risk if you buy something new, wherever it comes from. Just look at all the dogs that have been sold by the big brands. Hellfish anyone? Best made the best out of this accident, but you can't count on that. They might as well have gone bankrupt and left the buyers with a pile of crap in their hands.

So, to conclude, I would have no moral problems to buy such kite. That does not mean I would buy it, personally I prefer buying from people I know.

..to me it would depend. If I thought it was a rip off, I would not buy it. I have bought kites from less known brands, with limited success. It was a funny kite...it would work okay until it got wet..the material would soak up water and the kite would be almost uncontrollable...funky stuff...

[tungsten222]

Me too I bought crap at some point, but how would you know what a good kite is if you haven't flown a bad one

[Toby]

all kiting related business are in for the passion. I am sure there is none just started to make money! They have to make money to survive, but if just for the money, they would have been better of in the real estate or banking business (just make sure to get out it when it goes down )

[Mysu]

what I have learned in life: once you want to save money, you will end up paying more. And this is in all areas you buy things. Nowadays I buy less things, but then of higher quality.

Agree. I would even prefer buying a second hand "quality verified" kite than a noname not checked one.

[tungsten222]

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Sed in urna et enim porttitor ullamcorper ac non ipsum. Proin eleifend orci quis ligula convallis et viverra metus porta. Fusce commodo eros ut sapien euismod venenatis. Proin suscipit auctor laoreet. Phasellus scelerisque viverra nisi eu malesuada. Etiam malesuada tellus non neque fermentum at molestie mi condimentum. Vestibulum gravida enim sit amet nisi mattis pulvinar. Suspendisse hendrerit ipsum id neque sodales ut tincidunt felis dignissim. Suspendisse potenti. Phasellus venenatis pharetra consectetur. Curabitur tempus lacinia dui. Nunc semper arcu id leo lacinia porta. Proin commodo adipiscing egestas. Suspendisse adipiscing enim turpis, sed.

[eree]

Do you really think that this is some big industry just following the money? I don't. I really do not think there is enough money in the sport for it. I don;t think we as customers have a responsibility for the brands per se, but I do think there is much more of reciprocity between customers and companies in this sport than you seem to indicate. This sport just doesn't have enough customers to be only money. Remember that these companies aren't some large conglomerate businesses. They are pretty small, and I'd say the core of each of the companies are probably less then 10 people.

all kiting related business are in for the passion. I am sure there is none just started to make money! They have to make money to survive, but if just for the money, they would have been better of in the real estate or banking business (just make sure to get out it when it goes down )

Right! I would like to see peoples faces on annual Neil Pryde Limited (owner of Cabrinha brand) shareholders meeting when CEO will say them "this year you'll get your payment in passion currency units"
As for Noname kites, why not? And why is Noname(yet) suddenly a copycat? This days most well known brands have very similar designs.

But you probably want to test it anyway before you buy it.

[panchito]

Can someone please tell me how many brands out there do a proper R & D for their products ??

I can agree that back in the day when everything started Roby , Pete and all those folks started into kiteboarding because of passion but come on guys , do you really think Dimitri makes Eclipse kites investing a ton of cash just for passion ?

Imo , maybe 3 or 4 brands do their job properly , the rest are just copycats , it could be as well " another " no name brand bringing kites into the market , so what ! I am sick & tired spending a lot of cash for a piece of equipment which at the end it turns around that it had probably none or very little R&D and testing . or you buy a 9m which works fantastic , then you purchase a 12 m from the same model / brand to find out that it flies like shit .

If you know the right person in China , you can order any model for a minimum of 10 kites per size and you can start your own little business at you local beach. I know a few guys who did that and they are doing pretty good so far .

What I know is that the entire concept needs to change , less & less people are willing to pay an average of 1.200.- euros for a kite nowadays .

One day someone in Sears in the US or Decathlon in Europe will launch their own branded kite gear for bulk price and everything will go back to normal , then you can buy a kite for a decent price .

Saludos

Franz