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 Post subject: Board angle when going upwind
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:15 am
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Location: Bay Area, northern California
I have noticed some riders like Damien go upwind with their boards as flat as possible most likely trying to get the leeward rail in... which I think requires a strong "pointing" action with the toes against the board.

On the other hand I have talked to other top riders who don't seem to worry too much for the flatness of the board and maintain a more comfortable feet position and letting the board run more towards the windward rail...

My questions are:

1. Is there a unique design aspect that makes a board run better on either rail? (I personally would benefit for a board that can use the windward rail better... it just feels more natural)


2. Would an exaggerated surface dome at the front straps provide a more comfortable position if the leeward rail proves to be more efficient? ( I noticed this feature on the 2011 Underground Race board which no longer seems to have been designed by Mike Zajicek )


Trying to build a custom board and I think these are interesting concepts...

Thanks for any information you can share...

Tabs


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 Post subject: Re: Board angle when going upwind
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:20 pm 
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I think you are wrong about the pointing of toes to keep flat..

the fins are so large that the board is actually trying to lift from the heel side edge, do in effect you are pulling with your toes, up against the straps and pushing your heels down to keep the board flat. I imagine that it is felt most on the front of your shins....


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 Post subject: Re: Board angle when going upwind
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:14 pm 
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Location: Bay Area, northern California
Thanks Tone that makes a lot of sense... I have never ridden a board with longer fins than 20 cms nor a windsurf and could not figure out those physics...

I have to conclude that testing on paper or CAD software is only useful after a whole lot of testing on the water...

Can someone comment on the relationship between board width and friendliness of the board?...

Is it significantly easier to ride downwind, tack and jibe on a sub 50 cms wide board than on a 64-70 cms wide one?

Maybe fin setup affects this as well...


Thanks again,

Tabs


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 Post subject: Re: Board angle when going upwind
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:01 am
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Tabs,

You are correct. I ride with Damien and he truly has a Fourth gear. By railing the board to leeward you are able to gain 1-2mph and point higher. However, it KILLS his feet. I personally can't hold it for more than a few minutes..

There is no unique design that begs this style of riding, it is simply faster. Back in the day, course racing windsurfers were ridden in a very similar fashion upwind..

Yes, the domed board is being designed to give the foot a more comfortable position while driving the board upwind. The dome raises the toes and allows the top of the foot to have a "more" natural position.

The width of the board doesn't really relate to the "friendliness of the board". The area it does improve is in Lightwind and Downwind legs. It lightwind it obviously has more volume/surface area for early planning. The advantage on the downwind is similar, because of the increased surface areas you generally can point deeper downwind on the bigger boards. And as you suggest it is easier to tack and jibe a bigger board.

The fin set-up does however affect the friendliness of the board.
Quads --> Go upwind the best, but are much harder to ride downwind.
Tris--> Don't go upwind quite as well but are much easier to ride off the wind.

This was shown at the Lord of the Winds race. Damien was on an Aguera quad and Johnny Heineken on the Jay Factory tri fin. The wind was pretty off the hook must racers using a 9-10m (which is small for racing). Damien would beat Johnny to the windward mark and then Johnny would catch him on the downwind. Not because his speed was better, but because he made fewer mistakes...

What is the biggest difference between the top riders. Who makes the least mistakes! If you have your tacks and Jibes nailed, you will be in the game. That is easier said than done.

Have fun with it!


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 Post subject: Re: Board angle when going upwind
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:55 am 
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Location: Bay Area, northern California
Thanks SRQ Kiter...

My logic tells me that there has to be a sweet spot in the combination of fin size and position that can make this "leeward railed" board position more natural and achieve it with less effort...

But I guess playing with kite position, forward speed and chop can challenge the chess master IBM chip to calculate this on paper.

I know this is kiteboarding... but there has to be a way to make it less bone-braking no?

I believe experimentation will be the key to design the breakthrough idea... then the Mikes, Alexs and Nilss will make it happen... yeah.

Tabs


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