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 Post subject: Re: Anybody have results of Slalom Worlds??
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:06 am 
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what is slalom? in and out of many buoys downwind?


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody have results of Slalom Worlds??
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:33 pm 
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longwhitecloud wrote:
what is slalom? in and out of many buoys downwind?


Its probably going to be a similar format to the very successful windsurf slalom, but adapted a bit to suit the kites.

This is the best illustration of the format, but you have to imagine it in a few years time with a competitive field of kiters.



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 Post subject: Re: Anybody have results of Slalom Worlds??
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:46 pm 
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ronnie wrote:
Congratulations Damo and Alex. :jump:

I'm interested to know what we learn from this.

In very light wind, they used 70cm raceboards. This seems to be down to the fact that they can go faster the tighter to the wind they ride in 6 knots? Usually we are used to a broad reach being the fastest point of sail.
The slalom board you sent is faster when lit on a 13m on a certain angle of course Alex. Can you shed any light on what wind speed that would be before they could run the usual downwind slalom (assuming they had 70cm as the max board width). Damo looked pretty fast in this with not a lot of wind. Was that on the Aguera slalom board?



Denzil said he had trouble making the start on the slalom board. The video shows an Aguera pin tail with 3 wave type fins in what looked like mini-tuttle boxes? Was that just because Denzil underestimated the speed it would go upwind and just needed more time?


Hi Ronnie, Damo was riding the slalom board in this heat in P.R. with probably a 13 or 11m kite. Looks like pretty lightwinds. I would say after about 15-18 kts of wind the slalom board starts to excel. Course boards are extremely fast but start to have jibing problems. I am not sure what happened with Denzil, I did not hear any details but if guys are riding 16 and 18m kites, it would not be real quick upwind to a starting area so you would have to leave the beach way before the CR boards in order to make the start and I think that some CR boards would have an edge on speed anyway. My new 2012 CR board and the Mikes Lab that Bryan Lake (aka Bernie) was riding are extremely fast on the reach in those light winds. When I raced Adam, Johnny, and Bernie in Canada , they were blazing fast downwind and knew I had to increase my boards downwind performance.AA


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody have results of Slalom Worlds??
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:59 pm 
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Thanks for the reply Alex.

This gives an idea of the speed and figure 8 slalom may be popular for local events or light winds?
I think Kent said it was about 11 mph for this figure 8 slalom video where Damo disappears off into the distance on your CR59. The new stuff must be even faster.



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 Post subject: Re: Anybody have results of Slalom Worlds??
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:19 pm 
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ronnie wrote:
Thanks for the reply Alex.

This gives an idea of the speed and figure 8 slalom may be popular for local events or light winds?
I think Kent said it was about 11 mph for this figure 8 slalom video where Damo disappears off into the distance on your CR59. The new stuff must be even faster.


That's a pretty cool video with them all standing on the bottom waiting for the horn to go off, I like it! They have a nice group of racers growing in the Miami area.
Lightwind figure eight courses might be well suited for CR boards because they have the upwind ability when you need it. The slalom boards are riding a little bit more with the windward rail down like a regular kite or surf board and therefore don't have the same drive and bite upwind.


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody have results of Slalom Worlds??
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:02 pm 
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what happened with me was basically I was riding a 14m kite, I am a small guy but most other people rode 16, 18 or 21m kites, I could go upwind fine on my own CR board but when racing people would slowly speed away from me so I had a quick go on Damiens slalom board and was blown away by how fast it went on a reach, damein ok'd for me to try it in a race but I could not make it to the start line in time, i was making ground slowly but not enough to start the race, the windspeed must have been around 7 to 8 knots at the time!
I found as soon as you flattened out the board it went uber fast.


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody have results of Slalom Worlds??
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:15 pm 
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Thanks Denzil.

In windsurf slalom, the bigger guys win because they can hold more power when its windy and choppy.

It seemed that Bernie did well when it was windier and Damo did well in the lighter winds.

Do you think rider size will be a factor in course racing or slalom?


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody have results of Slalom Worlds??
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:31 pm 
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ronnie wrote:
Thanks Denzil.

In windsurf slalom, the bigger guys win because they can hold more power when its windy and choppy.

It seemed that Bernie did well when it was windier and Damo did well in the lighter winds.

Do you think rider size will be a factor in course racing or slalom?


Hi Ronnie,
I probably should write a whole article on this but you have struck a cord with me on this question!!

This might happen in kite racing also in stronger winds but I think as long as kite race management does not make the same HUGE MISTAKE that we made in windsurfung race management with making strict wind minimums, then kitesurfing will be good for lighter guys in the lighter winds. The wind minimums adopted by Windsurfing back in the mid 80's really hurt the sports growth which was exploding at the time. It meant that we would no longer get some of the races done at some of the race locations we went to. People on the beach saw us sailing around but there would be no races because of these wind minimums we had adopted. They would ask us why we were not racing?
This was very unfortunate for many windsurf racers who were at the top of the sport before these rules were put into place. Guys like Karl Messmer, Robby Naish, Mike Waltze were all affected by these rules and would have had better Pro Windsurfing careers if they were not implemented. The Sport of windsurfing started its decline when these rules were put into place.
Kitesurfing can be done in very light winds now with the raceboards and hopefully kite management does not restrict the competitions by enforcing strict wind minimums. Sometimes people will not be able to plane or get moving for a little bit during racing, that is just part of light wind sailing. But do not cancel races because some people came off of a plane. If people are moving, then the spectators want to see some racing is a good basic quideline. Always remember that the growth of the sport is dictated by whether the spectators are watching and coming to the beach. They do not come back to watch if races are cancelled for the day and people are moving out on the water.
AA


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody have results of Slalom Worlds??
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:17 pm 
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With all your experience as PWA race director Alex, I'd take your opinion on it.

They have a 6 knot minimum for the Olympics but just seem to ignore it if they have to.

I was really surprised when Steph Bridge was able to win at Sylt in gusts over 30 knots and 3m seas on a 70cm board and 8m kite.

It just shows what can be done and maybe if you limit things, a lesser rider may gain an advantage and the best rider doesn't win. Getting performance in the lightest of winds is one of the highest skills, but body size is also a big factor I suspect, so I can see taller/heavier people not wanting to be disadvantaged too.


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 Post subject: Re: Anybody have results of Slalom Worlds??
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:25 pm 
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ronnie wrote:
With all your experience as PWA race director Alex, I'd take your opinion on it.

They have a 6 knot minimum for the Olympics but just seem to ignore it if they have to.

I was really surprised when Steph Bridge was able to win at Sylt in gusts over 30 knots and 3m seas on a 70cm board and 8m kite.

It just shows what can be done and maybe if you limit things, a lesser rider may gain an advantage and the best rider doesn't win. Getting performance in the lightest of winds is one of the highest skills, but body size is also a big factor I suspect, so I can see taller/heavier people not wanting to be disadvantaged too.


If the winds get super light, a heavier sailor will be disadvantaged at mark roundings but visa versa in strong winds when the lighter guys will be at a disadvantage all the way around the course. Bryan Lake did really well at the Worlds though in very light 6-10 knot winds and he is around 220 lbs or 100 kgs!
Steph did a great job at Sylt and I think most of the girls will ride the bigger boards (70cm). I have both of my daughters riding the 70 most of the races.


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