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Production Equipment Q&A updated

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BraCuru
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Re: Production Equipment Q&A updated

Postby BraCuru » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:05 am

Kite Rider wrote: I wonder when Markus will publish the results. There were many suggestions brought up by various national associations


The minutes were published on 20th October:
http://www.internationalkiteboarding.or ... Itemid=103

Have a good reading :bye:

johnnokeys
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Re: Production Equipment Q&A updated

Postby johnnokeys » Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:08 am

Thanks for info. About Australian nationals or state kite organisation has decided they cannot run the Australian Nationals in racing this year as they are pretty full with events, and they are heaps of Freestyle, race & festivals organised for our summer 2011/2012. So not sure who may put on event, great to see it happen again. From what I can see most states have a strong local race comp organised this summer.

longwhitecloud
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Re: Production Equipment Q&A updated

Postby longwhitecloud » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:36 am

Screw the custom board makers, I couldn't care less about them, let alone the big gun board makers, I can make my own board to spec for way less $$$. No way many could afford to do otherwise.

Every board should be weighed in and dimension checked at event - it is that simple, regardless of who made it. What kind of people decide this kind of stuff? Think about it.....

johnnokeys
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Re: Production Equipment Q&A updated

Postby johnnokeys » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:42 am

Yep got to agree with long white cloud. .... Makes perfect sense to me

BraCuru
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Re: Production Equipment Q&A updated

Postby BraCuru » Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:00 pm

longwhitecloud wrote:Screw the custom board makers

Strong words.
This season proved that from major companies only North and RRD managed to satisfy riders with board’s supplying.
Cabrinha failed totally. Interesting thing is they tried to implement the limit of 100 boards a year ago. How many people have seen Cabrinha Race 69cm 2011 registered in April 2011?
That was a main reason the PKA submitted to lower the limit.
This is just beginning and it would be not wise to give rights only to big companies if they are not capable to comply with the market demands. Racing is booming and nobody knows how many boards should be produced for the next season. For instance North would make 300 boards. What if there are 3000 riders planning to buy it? What about if only 200 riders planning to buy it? Always somebody will lose. It is not so simple as you think.

Every board should be weighed in and dimension checked at event - it is that simple, regardless of who made it. What kind of people decide this kind of stuff? Think about it.....

Why all? Who is going to pay for it? Imagine that you have 70 boards and all of them have to be checked without fins and straps, dry! When and how??? Be realistic.
Remember that:
1. The best control is provided by riders from other brands. If they have any doubts they protest a suspicious board straight away. That’s reality.
2. Any manufacturer will do all to make his boards the same as much as possible to avoid point no.1.
3. IKA randomly will carry checks during competitions.

So far it works smoothly...

handy
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Re: Production Equipment Q&A updated

Postby handy » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:10 pm

Boards have to be checked once at their firt race, then they get a stamp and the signature of the guy who checked the board . Thats how it works in most sailboat classes and i was allready like that 30 years ago in windsurfing division II. There should not only the weight and dimensions be checked, the most important thing is the rockerline. Cobra as an example has a tolerance of 5mm in there. That means a board with -5mm rocker will be very fast in low wind,a board with +5mm rocker will be much easyer to control in choppy conditions. So where will IKA set thier tolerance limit? The other thing is RSX olympic windsurfboard got spackelt up in the rockerline to adjust the rocker for light wind conditions, and this is very hard to see without a rocker former plate. The same problems with the kites, how to control if one of the teamriders is not using a kite with a flat profile for better upwind speed or a deeper profile for low wind ?
Last point is that IKO allwasy said that these rules are to keep the equipment prices down, but if you pay 1000$ for the board,you will need at least 3 fin sets to be fast in all conditiones.
Fin set prices start at 600$ and can easy go up to 1200$ each set for carbon molded fins.
As Adam Koch said in the Rista video, fins are one of the most importent parts in racing.
But the most importent thing is : IKA has to state where the production tolorances are, is it 1%, 3% or 5 %? we will seeand the season 2012 will be very interesting.

longwhitecloud
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Re: Production Equipment Q&A updated

Postby longwhitecloud » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:43 pm

Good point but rocker always has been a dimension.

" all? Who is going to pay for it? Imagine that you have 70 boards and all of them have to be checked without fins and straps, dry! When and how??? Be realistic."

This kind of thing happens at many major sailing events and for good reason, after seeing the variations in dimensions and weight - it is an awesome thing that makes things much fairer and more fun because you know you are not up against unfair advantages. The same checks apply to production equipment, and for very good reason!

I support sport for youth, this kind of thing once again demonstrates selfish interests in relation to the fact that young people tend to have have less $$. Gives the impression of a bunch of selfish middle aged losers making decisions based of their own and their friends (their shapers) interests and I don't want a bar of it.

My dad made boats for me and my brother when we were young for lack of $$$ reason. We were stoked to both ended up in our countries olympic training squad, it was awesome.

longwhitecloud
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Re: Production Equipment Q&A updated

Postby longwhitecloud » Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:59 pm

Screw the custom board makers was aimed at those that decided this, it may not actually be them. Can read not the way intended...

ronnie
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Re: Production Equipment Q&A updated

Postby ronnie » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:21 am

I understand the logic of the length, width and weight limitations and rules.

So you have a frame and if you cant make the board touch all 4 sides of the frame at the same time, it passes. You put it on a weighing scale and if it weighs enough it passes.

Doesn't sound too difficult to do when registering - am I wrong?

Then we get to the production rule and why is it in place?
The only reasons I can think of are supply and price. Is that the only way to ensure that its worthwhile tooling up for a production run to produce enough boards and is that the only way to keep the cost of a competitive board down?

BraCuru
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Re: Production Equipment Q&A updated

Postby BraCuru » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:02 pm

ronnie wrote:So you have a frame and if you cant make the board touch all 4 sides of the frame at the same time, it passes. You put it on a weighing scale and if it weighs enough it passes.

Doesn't sound too difficult to do when registering - am I wrong?


I know it looks simple but it does not the real picture. In reality riders want to compete on gear which would allow them to win by their skills, technique, tactics, experience - not gear alone.
A monotype would be the best solution from this point of view. But it is a very long way and nobody is sure if a successful one.

Anyway your idea of a sample frame does not indicate differences between boards of the very same manufacturer. The boards with same dimensions and weight may be absolutely different with performance. Just try to move fin boxes 2 cm towards a tail and you would not believe what impact it would have.
Riders buying a production board want to be sure that they would be riding exactly on the same board as the best team riders. That's the major idea of production class.
Your frame would not distinguished anything else except external outline dimensions.


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