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 Post subject: Re: Race board availability!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:08 pm 
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spacemonkey wrote:
Are you serious?

Unfortunately I am dead serious about the Polish market.
It might be different in UK and it is for sure different in Australia as saw on above pictures.
I would highly recommend you to check out with a North dealer very well before you sell old one.

gbleck wrote:
Lower weight limit is kind of odd. Don't think you could build a 85L 70cm width board at 5Kg.

3,2 or 3,5kg was the lightest one met during a competition last season. Don't remember very well.
BTW - the present IKA weight limit is 4,0kg :idea:


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 Post subject: Re: Race board availability!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:34 pm 
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Thanks Johnnokeys for your valued information re Aguera race board, did you import yours or buy from Australian dealer ? Our local shop is Briskites who may be able to obtain the CE69 for me. Will take advice and have go on my mates Nash board this Arvo and get started. Again appreciate help and may see you at the race in Townsville. Any further contact and assistance is welcomed. Will keep in touch re progress. GB :D


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 Post subject: Re: Race board availability!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:04 pm 
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Checked in board cad. You can build one at under 5kg. I just don't see a big competitive advantage to doing so. The top end production boards in the 85L volume look to all be in the 5-6kg range depending if you bag the sandwich on the core or put the sandwich and core into a mold. Then again we shall see if you can feel the difference as my e-glass on strait eps hand layup board is coming in around 7.6 kg. Good thing the rider is under 64 kg. 72 kg combined vs 69 kg. Around what like 4% difference. I'm thinking rider skill, rail shape, rocker line, flex and foils make a 4% mass change imperceptible on top speed. Maybe kicking the nose around in the tack?


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 Post subject: Re: Race board availability!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:49 am 
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gbleck wrote:
I just don't see a big competitive advantage to doing so. The top end production boards in the 85L volume look to all be in the 5-6kg range


I do not agree. There are two riders on the same level, similar weight, they have the same production board. One board is sucking water and is 2 ltrs heavier. There is NO CHANCE that the sinker will win the course race - especially in sub 10 knots winds.

Ask Koch how heavy was his ML last year :idea:
This year is different. There is only the production class in the international events. Production boards are made at least 5kg+ due to one reason: a durability. If they are still 3.5kg they would be damaged at once by inexperienced riders and claimed on guarantee rights. A manufacturer would have 100% returns and go bankrupt the same season.
But the same board in hands of pro rider would be a killer during competitions. No doubts in my mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Race board availability!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:48 am 
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Location: Italy
In Italy i've seen 4 athlets with the new North race 2012, two of them have problems with the board that drinks water from the hole of the footstraps screw and/or the finboxes, may be this a reason of the delay of the next delivery ?
A part from this problem, the IKA rule about the production board is a real problem that keeps many people out of the race because who wants to spend so much money for an unknown board, if you want be sure to have your board for the first race of your country, you need to order it in advance and if you are lucky you will get it a week before the race, than you find-out that the board have construction problems... :angryfire:
In every country there are many local shapers that can make better board for less, but not elegibile for racing by IKA :( .
I hope that this rule will soon be changed, it is not good for our sport, only for the major brands.
Once IKA have fixed the box rule and a minimun weight, than let everyone free to use the board that he prefers (custom or production).


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 Post subject: Re: Race board availability!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:29 pm 
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1L of water in the board isn't quite the same as adding 1Kg of mass to the layup. 1L of water decreases the amount of floatation equal to 1L of floatation. 1Kg of extra glass would only decrease the floatation by the extra volume of 1kg of glass/resin. At 1.6kg/L or 1.6 g / cm cubed thats .6L of volume per Kg or you can add 1.6kg of structure to equal 1L of water in the board. Anyone ever do any empirical testing of identical shapes and layups varying the mass? CNC cut then bagged on core vs molded?


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 Post subject: Re: Race board availability!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:38 pm 
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1 kg of water inside a foam core is just a shit idea, irrespective of the extra weight the core will break down and eventually fail arguments about extra weight etc are irrelevant. boards shouldnt leak full stop!


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 Post subject: Re: Race board availability!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:12 pm 
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gbleck wrote:
Anyone ever do any empirical testing of identical shapes and layups varying the mass?

Not exactly what you mentioned but I did a kind of testing with a top world rider. We were on different boards. My board was leaky badly through inserts and got 0.7 to 1.2ltrs of water after 1hr. The results were well visible. Within first 15 minutes I was capable to go the very same speed and I pointed even more upwind. 15-30min I was just behind the dry board. It was pointless to compete after 45 minutes. Just pointless...So I got to a beach. Made another hole in a hull, put it vertically and left it overnight.
Such testing was done on at least 5-6 days in different wind and chop conditions. The effect was exactly the same each day.
Amazing sensation was that water gathered in a tail part of hull. I could feel it under my back foot (not physically but by weight board's distribution). In light winds it was like racing with a brick fitted over the middle fin. Sinking...

Silver_surfer wrote:
In Italy i've seen 4 athlets with the new North race 2012, two of them have problems with the board that drinks water from the hole of the footstraps screw and/or the finboxes, may be this a reason of the delay of the next delivery ?

Wasn't the same problem with North 69Ltd a year ago?
If it is true I might be screwed for this season :(

Quote:
I hope that this rule will soon be changed, it is not good for our sport, only for the major brands. Once IKA have fixed the box rule and a minimum weight, than let everyone free to use the board that he prefers (custom or production).

In my mind I would be positive to change the minimum weight to 6.0kg (reasonable price vs durability factor), withdrawn the amount limit and leave the rest of box rules. Sounds simple from point of view of average rider as I am. Probably big guns having support from manufactures have different opinion.
Wonder to know what other sides of the racing scene thinks about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Race board availability!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:27 pm 
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Having 1 kg of water in the board that flows to the low point, changing the center of gravity of the board is probably a lot worse than 1 kg distributed on the board.

I've wondered what the actual total weight of the board is when you are riding and part of the rider's weight is supported by the kite. No clue what the actual tension in the lines is though. Even if half the rider's weight is supported, I don't understand why 1 or 2 kg in board weight would make much of a difference. Getting the weight in the right place seems like more of an issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Race board availability!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:57 pm 
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There is a huge difference between damped or undamped mass. the factor is about 10,
rider from knee up is damped mass.


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