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 Post subject: is equal for all?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:23 pm
Posts: 47
Location: italy
these are the differences between (RRD North) and a small business:

RRD North
1) ability to recruit the best athletes
2) ability to sponzorizzare a large amount of promoter
3) ability to carry out a research and development without economic constraints
4) ability to deal with all the competitions around the world
5) the possibility of production of large quantities of equipment
6) political power in the kite
7) economic power
8 ) I do not know where but I'm sure they have other

(I do not want and I can not force them to limit this)

take for example Newind
could also be one of you who have the skills to get involved:

1) know the composite
2) ability to work
3) be a good athlete
4) end


I fear that exclude small producers
you will feel right?

remember that if this happens will be a loss for all of you.
you will be forced to have only one choice
if you are not in their ranks will not have opportunity

is first of all will not be a democratic choice
Riccardo


{ SHARE_ON_FACEBOOK } { SHARE_ON_TWITTER } { SHARE_ON_ORKUT } { SHARE_ON_DIGG } { SHARE_ON_MYSPACE } { SHARE_ON_DELICIOUS }
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 Post subject: Re: is equal for all?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 12:52 am
Posts: 217
Location: Australia
I see you have had a :baby: in the other thread as well and excuse my Italian, but I have never been there and my neighbour is from Vietnam so here is my 20euro's worth :naughty:

I do understand your problem, but all businesses have rules, regulations and issues they need to overcome to carry out their business. Some companies go to a bank and ask for 1 billion dollars, some need to test their product for years before they are allowed to sell to the public, I bet that is harder than submitting your design to IKA

I am sure Aguera and ML were once small like you.

You are in control of your own future, rather than come on here and state your case to people who will not be in a position to help you, probably don't care and have no interest in how you will buy food tomorrow.
Can you:
Submit a design to IKA for approval? (they have not restricted this to just a few)
Can you get a bank loan and make 30 boards and sell them (business is all about taking a risk to succeed, success is rarely handed to you on a silver plate).
Find a talented local rider who will assist you and use your product so you can win some local races and get more sales and help you achieve the sales volumes you need to get bigger?
Can you make a SUP? (they are selling well)
Can you make surfboards?
Can you make race fins? (not restrictions or limitations here yet).
Could you start another kite race competition were you can make you own rules and invite people to participate in your events? (this happens all the time with other sports when people don't like the rules).
Can you get a job with north or RRD as a designer?
Have you emailed the IKA to see what it would take to register your design?
Have you lobbied the IKA to have them lower the number of boards needed to be produced?
Have you emailed all the other small race board builders so you can all get together and try to improve your situation?
Have you lobbied the IKA to ask for some sort of exemption or some way for the smaller board builders to get a foot in the door?

There is nothing at all stopping your local race organisers from host a custom board class in their competitions, Have you lobbied any european kite organisations that might host a race meeting to see if they are willing to host such a class, I bet if you put up a small amount of cash for a prize they would (get other custom board builder to chip in as well, hell if you could get more prize money than the production fleet which competition do you think everyone will want to race in? :jump:
Gee and if your board wins some races others will want to buy it then you sell more then you can submit your design to IKA.

The IKA are not against you, they have come up with these rules supposedly for the good of the sport, they are our governing body and we need to trust that they had a big meeting and went though all the pros and cons and did not take this decision lightly.

If raceboard design is your only source of income you need to start thinking how to overcome this obstacle right now :idea:

What you do tomorrow will depend on what choices you made today :thumb:

Now this only took me about 20 mins to dream up, what can you think of with a good nights sleep :bye:


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 Post subject: Re: is equal for all?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:22 am
Posts: 12
Its an easy fix, get rid of the production rule. Then anyone can play (or at least try to). If you want to equalize racing with gear, make a 1 design class. The gear for that class would have to come from one of the Titan's of the industry, because they would need to be able to provide equipment for people all over the world.

Of course, the one design equipment would quickly become outdated, and slower than the open gear.

I wouldn't race in that class, but I am just saying that is the solution. The production rule as it stands now is not accomplishing anything: you still can't walk into a shop and buy a board off the rack, and don't tell me it has done anything to equalize the gear. If anything it has made it worse, because there are only a few boards out there that are competitive, and you can't just get them easily!


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 Post subject: Re: is equal for all?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:36 am
Posts: 8556
Location: Oahu
OP is confusing terms here.
The box rule is put in place to protect us the users. If not the guys who can afford a new board for every race will have an advantage. ie. it will still favor the larger companies.

I would agree with the second post...OP will have to take a chance and increase his production output...or just grow slowly..most local competitions will not care either way.,.....either way talking about democratic choices just seems nonsensical to me.


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 Post subject: Re: is equal for all?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:23 pm
Posts: 47
Location: italy
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you did not grasp the speech!
I do not want to work with China
I want to work here in Italy in Europe
I want to work as I do
produce with my hands
as I have always done
do you think is wrong?
I am here since 1999, long before their
with their greed are destroying this world
are transforming the kiteboard in an industry that thinks only of the profit!
remember to borrow money and build a board in china
does not mean being a shaper
I'm sure Maxlab and Aguera were on my side
I do root for them


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 Post subject: Re: is equal for all?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 10:57 pm 
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Location: italy
tautologies wrote:
OP is confusing terms here.
The box rule is put in place to protect us the users. If not the guys who can afford a new board for every race will have an advantage. ie. it will still favor the larger companies.

I would agree with the second post...OP will have to take a chance and increase his production output...or just grow slowly..most local competitions will not care either way.,.....either way talking about democratic choices just seems nonsensical to me.



THIS IS JUST AN EXCUSE BANAL

you do not want to allow anyone to grow
athletes and builders
with my board does not become a world champion
you must sacrifice and talent
you do not want to divide the slice, that is the problem


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 Post subject: Re: is equal for all?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:34 pm 
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Location: italy
chicken strap wrote:
Its an easy fix, get rid of the production rule. Then anyone can play (or at least try to). If you want to equalize racing with gear, make a 1 design class. The gear for that class would have to come from one of the Titan's of the industry, because they would need to be able to provide equipment for people all over the world.

Of course, the one design equipment would quickly become outdated, and slower than the open gear.

I wouldn't race in that class, but I am just saying that is the solution. The production rule as it stands now is not accomplishing anything: you still can't walk into a shop and buy a board off the rack, and don't tell me it has done anything to equalize the gear. If anything it has made it worse, because there are only a few boards out there that are competitive, and you can't just get them easily!



right!
is difficult for large companies (supply each store)
let alone small.
a rule must be
the current at this time is ok
with the passing of time everything works out
RRD North will make their big production
I'll do my small production
What are we afraid of?


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 Post subject: Re: is equal for all?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 1:34 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:15 am
Posts: 1435
IKAs pay 400 euros for a small sticker on the back of each board means absolutely nothing to most. There were races before possible Olympic inclusion and there will be races afterwards when it is removed from the olympics and your local sailing club/association has dropped you all like a lead balloon. Right now the idea of sanctioned race events(have to have sticker /have to be "chosen" by your countries governing body) is laughable and against what kiteboarding stands for for many, and as for that dumb little sticker - it means nothing. I wouldn't be surprised to see other classes of kiteboard racing emerge (as foil have achieved) without all the bull5hit and without absolutely anything to do with ISAF /IKA.

I have put the idea out there for an open source class without the ridiculous expense of top level olympic box rule.

Those that want to indulge in $3000 boards x3 + $700X3 fin sets and 6 kites can do that, good for them, enjoy! and those that want absolutely nothing to do with the beurocracy and conflicts of interests can get on and do their thing.

Those investing in raceboards and the little sticker are taking big risks right now I reckon, it's all good until the punters see the retail price tag...


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 Post subject: Re: is equal for all?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:36 am
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Location: Oahu
newind wrote:

THIS IS JUST AN EXCUSE BANAL

you do not want to allow anyone to grow
athletes and builders
with my board does not become a world champion
you must sacrifice and talent
you do not want to divide the slice, that is the problem


No it is not. It EXACTLY that same argument you are putting up, you just want the ride to bear the cost and not the brand.

You say it is too expensive for you to produce x number of boards. Well, I say it is too expensive for me to buy x number of boards each season because people can develop boards through the season.

Sure it is not a perfect solution.

but don't tell me what I want to allow. You are completely wrong. I just happen to have a different perspective.


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 Post subject: Re: is equal for all?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 11:37 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:39 pm
Posts: 2955
The production quantity has been reduced to 30 boards.
That is still a lot of investment, but it does make it possible for someone other than a very big company to have that quantity made.

Having said that, it still means that the company prepared to spend the most money can produce more production designs.

There is also the possibility that a countries Olympic program would be prepared to have their own Olympic board productionised for their own team. If they can prove that they have a prototype that is faster than the other boards available in the conditions most likely at Rio, they can buy themselves that advantage.

Maybe contacting the Italian Olympic Federation about providing them with prototypes for testing would be worth considering?
I would expect though that RRD would be eager to take on that role if the Italians were prepared to at least partially fund it, and it probably wouldn't start until at least 2015.


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