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Do Line Extensions Lower your Low-End?

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Jaco
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Do Line Extensions Lower your Low-End?

Postby Jaco » Sun May 18, 2008 1:45 am

I have 5m line extensions. I'm thinking of adding them to my existing 22m line set for a 12m bow kite. Will this at all lower my low-end and will it really impact me steering? Thanks!

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slingshotucf
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Re: Do Line Extensions Lower your Low-End?

Postby slingshotucf » Sun May 18, 2008 1:52 am

The kite will fly slower and have more grunt to it. You'll give up speed so it's a give and get type of thing. Try it out and see how it feels, on some kites, like a Contra, I like 20 meter lines on while most kites work well with around 25 meters.

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Re: Do Line Extensions Lower your Low-End?

Postby Jaco » Sun May 18, 2008 2:05 am

Thanks SSUCF. This specific kite is a Cabrinha Omega. So the total lines length w/extensions would be 27m. Too much?

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discojuggernaut
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Re: Do Line Extensions Lower your Low-End?

Postby discojuggernaut » Sun May 18, 2008 8:37 am

27m lines are ideal in my opinion for light winds. I prefer them to the stock 21m lines that most manufacturers supply with their kites. For me I'd rather ride my smaller kite with extensions than my bigger kite without them. Longer lines give you a longer power stroke, which is handy in light conditions. Any more than 27-30m and you get diminishing returns. You might also have to consider the logistics of having longer lines (crowded beach, tight launch, kiteboarder traffic). Also longer lines induce more drag, causing the kite to sit a little bit farther back in the window. And of course it slows down the steering. But you get bigger air, although it's a little harder to time it. My kites have 21m stock and I have 7m extensions and I am happy with them.

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Re: Do Line Extensions Lower your Low-End?

Postby schmoe » Sun May 18, 2008 9:53 am

The most impressive light wind riding I ever saw was on a 9m Bow with very long lines, somewhere around the 30 if not more. I thought I am good at light wind but there is no way I could have done what this guy did with a smaller kite and heavier weight. I think if you have a kite that turns well, you should give it a go. If the kite turns like a pig to start with, maybe not.

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Re: Do Line Extensions Lower your Low-End?

Postby Kikko » Sun May 18, 2008 8:18 pm

I once tried on double lines from 2 bars. I think around 50m. I was riding with good power with 14m2, when wind at ground was about 2-3m/s.

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Re: Do Line Extensions Lower your Low-End?

Postby Kevin Salter » Sun May 18, 2008 8:36 pm

Kite speed contributes to kite power, and since about 2003 I have cut down kite lines to give 24 mtrs from the bar to the end of the lines.

On all the kites I have used the 24mtr overall improved the bottom end and top end compared to 30 or 27 mtr lines.
The bottom end was improved cos the extra speed linked the power strokes together better and eliminated the dead patch in between turns when flying the kite a bit for power, and the top end was better cos the kite would fly forward faster when needed.

Longer lines do slow down turning speed significantly.

I found that going any shorter than 24 mtr overall dropped of bottom end , significantly.

I have always ridden C kites, so bows or SLE's are going to be different.

On a kite that doesn't generate much power in the turns i.e. most SLE's and Bows ,longer lines might give more bottom end, cos for park and ride the longer lines keep the kite back in the window , more which will create more downwind pull.

I don't know where the Omega fits in with all the above, but you will be able to feel if the kite pulls in the turns or not.

Bigger boards that help generate forward speed resulting in more kite power will give way more gains than line length for bottom end.

Hope this info helps you sort it out , it can be difficult trying back to back, different line lengths in the same conditions ,to get a comparison of what is happening .

So the above is what I've found over the past 5 years. :thumb:

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Re: Do Line Extensions Lower your Low-End?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun May 18, 2008 8:58 pm

Longer lines DO lower you low-end yes.

Both C and SLE kites.

Whether you have a fast or somewhat slower turning kite - does not change a bit.

If you go for 27 to even 35m lines maybe - you can kite in less wind, no doubt at all !

I dont understand fully what you mean the kite gets "slower" ?

The speed of the kite is exactly the same.
The speed the kite turns is exactly the same.

Only thing different, is the time it takes till the kite hits the window edge (and sligthly more line drag of course) - and this gives the impression that the kite is slower, although it behaves exactly the same way as always :thumb:

You wont gain anything in low end if we are talking about the wind zone where you can still park the kite - then you better stay with your "standard" line lenght (21-25m I assume), as these works by far the best overall.

But if the wind is even lighter, and you have to sine the kite - longer lines DEFINITELY helps improve the low end, as ANY kite will lose some power during the turn, and the longer stroke gives much more efficient power.

It might not be nearly as much fun, no - as it gives you a more "sloppy" feel because you dont hit the edge so fast...

But it WILL give you better lowend, thats for sure :thumb:

Kindy, Peter Frank

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Re: Do Line Extensions Lower your Low-End?

Postby jjjlaudenslager » Mon May 19, 2008 3:24 am

A couple weeks ago I tried 5m/15' extensions to my usual 20m/60' lines. First with my usual lines, out about 1/2 mile then back, and out and back several more times, noting where I returned to shore each time, and averaging them. The average turned out to be about where I started. Then I added the extensions and did the same. Immediately I appreciated the longer power stroke and the feel of more pull from the kite. I could edge harder. BUT I ONLY GOT BACK TO ABOUT THE SAME POINT ON SHORE AS WITH THE SHORT LINES. I took the extensions off and repeated the out and backs, with the end point on shore as before.

I NOTICED NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE IN TURNING SPEED.

So, my rationalization is: longer lines feel more powerful because the drag of longer lines makes the kite sit further back in the window, but that does not translate into going upwind better; and there is a longer power stroke, but that makes no difference if you're seldom turning but only sineing; and the stronger wind higher up seemed not enough to make a difference.

In the surf I wouldn't want longer lines and their long power stroke because I often want to get the kite from my one side to the other in a hurry.

There is a case where I would want long lines, maybe even 30m/90', and that would be cruising or distance racing, especially in gusty conditions, because longer more bowed lines absorb shocks.

Anyway, that is as close to scientific testing as I've got on this subject.

John

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Re: Do Line Extensions Lower your Low-End?

Postby Kevin Salter » Mon May 19, 2008 10:48 pm

Re turning speed and kite speed on different line lengths.

Interesting how different all our experiences have been?

I find the kite responds a lot quicker on shorter lines so there is no delay between bar in put and kite response, so this is what I mean about faster turning. The other thing is the kite comes out of the turns with more speed on shorter lines IMO.

The kite also travels across the window quicker as it has less distance to travel so the speed of the kite between turns is quicker, which I find gives me more bottom end when I'm flying the kite around for power.


These days my biggest kite is a 13 mtr fuel. In the past I used to ride a 17 fuel and before that an 18 mtr X2, and on those bigger kites there was a significant increase in bottom end on 23 mtr lines vs 27 or 30 mtr lines. The kites could fly responsively in less wind, which meant power could be generated to get up and going.

I have always had a bigger board of some sort for the lite, and this works well with shorter lines for me.

On a small power hungry TT, shorter lines might not work the same, but on a bigger board two power strokes and your up and planing , and the forward speed powers the kite up more and more, and if your on long lines you end up getting pulled downwind with this setup, in the lite. :thumb:

I can be out on a surfboard with 23mtr lines and the 13 fuel and be going upwind when people on contra's and 152 TT's are losing ground, so the board and kite and line length all work together to achieve the end result. :thumb:


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