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Kitesurfers Valid World Speed Record and ISAF- by Gebi

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Gebi
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Kitesurfers Valid World Speed Record and ISAF- by Gebi

Postby Gebi » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:34 pm

Kitesurfers are the World’s Fastest Sailors and the only 3 sailors to go over 50 knots average speed on a 500 meter course.

1. Alex Caizegues- F-21, 50.57 knots -Luderitz, Namibia's Second lagoon
2. Rob Douglas - US-55, 50.54 knots -Luderitz, Namibia's Second lagoon
3. Sebastian Cattelain - F-69 50.52 knots - Luderitz, Namibia's Second lagoon

ISAF has decided to nullify the kiteboarder’s records and not allow kitesurfing to hold the outright speed record.

ISAF is just playing politics and needs to be pressured to show they have set too much precedence to even think of continuing to not honor the work the kiteboarding speed fraternity has done in recent months.

There are only 3 sailors who have gone over 50 knots on a 500 meter course and they belong to an elite club.

All three of our kiteboarding brothers did it according to the rules stipulated by ISAF and WSSRC which is the council mandated to control speed records under ISAF's umbrella. The kiteboarder's all paid their fees, had a WSSRC commissioner on site to ratify the times, followed all the rules laid out by WSSRC relative to water depth and then clearly and consistently broke the world records. What is there to argue at this point?

I especially like the part where Sjoujke Bredenkamp has held the "Outright World Sailing Speed Record" for women for over a year under ISAF"s approval as the fastest female sailor on the planet and now it is overturned? Well she is pretty hot looking! So I can understand getting a free hall pass form ISAF for the last year, but it is clear that they are playing petty politics at this point in time.

Is it time for a class action suit from speed kiteboarders?

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/blog/ ... cords.html

There are two sailing factions that have been fighting it out head to head with kitesurfers to break the magical 50 knot barrier and to break the outright sailing speed record (and lost I might add) one of them has lost with honor, but what about the other?

1. SAIL ROCKET- Vestas Sail Rocket, an insect-looking, air-foil-driven “sailing” craft, has been inching its way towards the 50-knot goal in northern Namibia. Paul Larsen, the boat’s pilot, said wednesday that he believed the kiters deserved the current title. “All my life I have dreamed of being No. 1, the fastest in my chosen field,” Larsen said in an e-mail message from Namibia. “There is no way I would take it on a technicality. It has to be undisputed. It has to be outright.”

Sail rocket has stepped up and admitted that the kiters are the fastest, but what about Hydroptere. They could show their honor as well by admitting that the race to 50 knots is over and won by the kiteboard fraternity.

2. HYDROPTERE- IS it time for Hydroptere to show some respect and own up to the fact that they have lost the race to 50 knots as well? Or is it back room ISAF politics as usual?

Regards Michael Gebhardt- Rob Douglas's coach and www.nassp.net team member

REBUTTAL FROM ROB DOUGLAS

ISAF recognizes Kite Sailing (which is what we do.) They sanction a new organization (IKA) and state that we could become an Olympic class.....

Then they do not recognize Kite Sailing as a craft allowed to hold the Outright Speed Sailing record.

So,

1. Kite Sailing has been around for 1000's of years. The Chinese used kites to power their small fishing boats.
2. 1972 Jacob's Ladder uses 7 Kites (stacked) and Ian Day break's the World Record and holds it for 6 years.
3. Sjoukje Bredenkamp holds the current Women's Outright Record for over a year already, now all of a sudden she doesn't?
4. The WSSRC has for over 6 years taken fees from 100's of kite sailors with the opportunity to break the outright speed sailing record. Kite Sailors have used the WSSRC rules and adhered to them and by doing so, earned the RIGHT to call themselves the owner of the Outright Record.

What is the WSSRC?
was established by the International Yacht Racing Union (now renamed the International Sailing Federation) in 1972. The object was to provide impartial results for increasing numbers of claims to high speed sailing craft (on water: never on ice nor land!). Early on the decision was made to base such speed ratifications on a one-way leg of exactly 500 metres. Meetings were held every year, often several meetings a year, in various suitable places in the world and speeds climbed with boats of various configurations and with sailboards.

SO we can clearly see that this is about SAILING and nothing to do with craft. Define SAILING and I believe that this is the only way to define what we do.

What is FAIR?
Is it fair that Hydroptere is allowed to sail anywhere on water using hydrofoils using a GPS device to calculate speed and or records? Yet, Kite sailors and Sailboarders HAVE to use 2 fixed points and video timing.

IS it fair that Big Boat syndicates pressurize the WSSRC into a depth rule citing a "Ground Effect" law which is not challenged properly and put in place days before an officially sanctioned and paid up event (WSSRC - PKRA Speed Event, Fuerte Ventura, Africa.) A rushed meeting then agrees that 50cm is the right depth to be changed to 10cm or average Beam of craft, which moves it out to 15cm. However, the WSSRC has been challenged to provide the beam width of Hydroptere including it's foils and how they have validated the water depth during and after it's so called record runs (still silence and no answer. )

What is further worrying is the email I received from the WSSRC Secretary, John Read, it states that the big boat syndicates arguments (I think he meant cash) are stronger than ours and that sailing in shallow water and man made canals is to be done away with..... So the French Trench should be worried as well.

(So will ISAF now not validate the windsurfers records because they sailed in a man made trench)

This is about stupid dirty politics of large boat syndicates trying to buy their way into the record books.

Alex Caizergues IS the fastest sailor/kitesurfer and anybody who is not of this opinion should look at themselves and wonder why? He sails, he conformed with the conditions set out by a WSSRC commissioner and paid his fees. This is all that should be done. You cannot in retro take something away from somebody and then sit back and drink your G&T's. Lawsuits are there for a reason and what has been done so far would not be hard to get some good cash in the back pocket.

The WSSRC is totally out of touch and to allow other craft MASSIVE advantages whilst trying to make out that kiters gain an advantage in shallow water is not "FAIR" or indeed acceptable. If they want to stand out as the Authority for Speed Sailing, they should make all craft ride under the same conditions.

1. Between 2 fixed points
2. With Video Timing
3. With Ground Effect or without.

If all adhered to the above, we all know who is the fastest, and that is I guess the problem for people with large sums of money invested. However, this should not be the problem of $1500 syndicates known as kiters.

Rant over.

Rob Douglas is kitesurfings new rookie speed champ, currently the USA's fastest sailor and second fastest sailor on the planet. www.nassp.net
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Re: Kitesurfers Valid World Speed Record and ISAF- by Gebi

Postby tungsten222 » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:22 pm

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit.
Last edited by tungsten222 on Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kitesurfers Valid World Speed Record and ISAF- by Gebi

Postby Windguy » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:33 pm

I hope L-hydropenis flys apart at the seems when it reaches 49.99999 knots. The world knows who the fastest is ratified or not. Tilmann is the fastest and it sucks that it wasn't at a sanctioned event...........but I guess that doesn't matter either.

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Re: Kitesurfers Valid World Speed Record and ISAF- by Gebi

Postby truthonwater » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:34 pm

Fuck them!
Kiteboarding doesn't need any recognition from stupid fat old farts who sit in their
office and lost contact with the real world! :nono: :baby:

Great job by Alex, Rob, Sebastian, Tilmann and many other speedkiters who
try to push the limits. 8)

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Re: Kitesurfers Valid World Speed Record and ISAF- by Gebi

Postby RickI » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:46 pm

Nice write up Gebi and well considered argument. You make some good points. I just started editing that video interview we shot about the speed runs in SA. Hope to have it up soon.

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Re: Kitesurfers Valid World Speed Record and ISAF- by Gebi

Postby Antoine » Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:19 pm

Point well made.

Can you post some Phone Numbers and Names so that we can call them and ask directly what the deal is.

Can someone post the official rules so that we can make our own decision.

Antoine

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Re: Kitesurfers Valid World Speed Record and ISAF- by Gebi

Postby Hansen Design » Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:10 pm

Seems to me that ISAF's action is ultimately a formal recognition of kite-powered watercraft. Everytime a new form of ancient interface wind powered device outperforms traditional craft, it is outlawed by various sanctioning bodies only to be eventually recognized when the evidence of superior performance and viability in the mainstream becomes irrefutable. Multihulls, hydrofoils and windsurfers come to mind in this respect. Sail Rocket could (and probably will) easily become Kite Rocket as they progressively pursue ultimate speed. Same goes for Hydroptere. There are always new barriers to break like 60mph and 60knots. IMHO, time spent fighting ISAF or WRSSC is a waste relative to time spent raising the bar. Put your energy and resources into that and ultimately they will buckle and ratify or become irrelevant entities..

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Re: Kitesurfers Valid World Speed Record and ISAF- by Gebi

Postby chipmunk » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:24 pm

more info from last week

Ad-Hoc: Outright Speed Sailing World Record
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2352965

Kiteboarding on target for official World Championship Title
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2352882&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

No Record If you cannot win Move the goal posts
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2352902


http://www.kiteboarder.co.uk/kitesurfin ... =1&t=27997
If you cannot win Move the goal posts

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Re: Kitesurfers Valid World Speed Record and ISAF- by Gebi

Postby BWD » Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:22 am

IMHO, time spent fighting ISAF or WRSSC is a waste relative to time spent raising the bar. Put your energy and resources into that and ultimately they will buckle and ratify or become irrelevant entities..

:thumb:
Just by raising the bar over 50kts, the thin edge of the wedge is in.
So just smile and keep tapping, with these numbers. They do add up, you know.

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Re: Kitesurfers Valid World Speed Record and ISAF- by Gebi

Postby Windfreeeek » Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:01 am

Gebi wrote:ISAF recognizes Kite Sailing (which is what we do.) They sanction a new organization (IKA) and state that we could become an Olympic class.....

Then they do not recognize Kite Sailing as a craft allowed to hold the Outright Speed Sailing record.

So,

1. Kite Sailing has been around for 1000's of years. The Chinese used kites to power their small fishing boats.
2. 1972 Jacob's Ladder uses 7 Kites (stacked) and Ian Day break's the World Record and holds it for 6 years.
3. Sjoukje Bredenkamp holds the current Women's Outright Record for over a year already, now all of a sudden she doesn't?
4. The WSSRC has for over 6 years taken fees from 100's of kite sailors with the opportunity to break the outright speed sailing record. Kite Sailors have used the WSSRC rules and adhered to them and by doing so, earned the RIGHT to call themselves the owner of the Outright Record.

What is the WSSRC?
was established by the International Yacht Racing Union (now renamed the International Sailing Federation) in 1972. The object was to provide impartial results for increasing numbers of claims to high speed sailing craft (on water: never on ice nor land!). Early on the decision was made to base such speed ratifications on a one-way leg of exactly 500 metres. Meetings were held every year, often several meetings a year, in various suitable places in the world and speeds climbed with boats of various configurations and with sailboards.

SO we can clearly see that this is about SAILING and nothing to do with craft. Define SAILING and I believe that this is the only way to define what we do.

What is FAIR?
Is it fair that Hydroptere is allowed to sail anywhere on water using hydrofoils using a GPS device to calculate speed and or records? Yet, Kite sailors and Sailboarders HAVE to use 2 fixed points and video timing.

IS it fair that Big Boat syndicates pressurize the WSSRC into a depth rule citing a "Ground Effect" law which is not challenged properly and put in place days before an officially sanctioned and paid up event (WSSRC - PKRA Speed Event, Fuerte Ventura, Africa.) A rushed meeting then agrees that 50cm is the right depth to be changed to 10cm or average Beam of craft, which moves it out to 15cm. However, the WSSRC has been challenged to provide the beam width of Hydroptere including it's foils and how they have validated the water depth during and after it's so called record runs (still silence and no answer. )

What is further worrying is the email I received from the WSSRC Secretary, John Read, it states that the big boat syndicates arguments (I think he meant cash) are stronger than ours and that sailing in shallow water and man made canals is to be done away with..... So the French Trench should be worried as well.

(So will ISAF now not validate the windsurfers records because they sailed in a man made trench)

This is about stupid dirty politics of large boat syndicates trying to buy their way into the record books.

Alex Caizergues IS the fastest sailor/kitesurfer and anybody who is not of this opinion should look at themselves and wonder why? He sails, he conformed with the conditions set out by a WSSRC commissioner and paid his fees. This is all that should be done. You cannot in retro take something away from somebody and then sit back and drink your G&T's. Lawsuits are there for a reason and what has been done so far would not be hard to get some good cash in the back pocket.

The WSSRC is totally out of touch and to allow other craft MASSIVE advantages whilst trying to make out that kiters gain an advantage in shallow water is not "FAIR" or indeed acceptable. If they want to stand out as the Authority for Speed Sailing, they should make all craft ride under the same conditions.

1. Between 2 fixed points
2. With Video Timing
3. With Ground Effect or without.

If all adhered to the above, we all know who is the fastest, and that is I guess the problem for people with large sums of money invested. However, this should not be the problem of $1500 syndicates known as kiters.

Rant over.



Hey Gebi!!

Actually, I wrote this, the other Rob in speed!

Trust all is well and that you are not missing the Namibian Vegitarian food too much!

Cheers

Rob Munro
www.gps-kitesurfing.com


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