How important is bar size?

[POACHER]

It seems like many of the large, light wind kites come with huge bars. How much difference is there in flying a bigger kite with a smaller size bar? Is a 60cm+ size bar necessary?

I've never tried flying my bigger kite with a smaller bar. When I say small, I'm talking about 50cm-55cm.

Thanks!

[Kamikuza]

Leverage on the kite ... easy on the elbows and affects turning speed response. Just move your hands in and out on the bar when initiating a turn to get a relative idea of a smaller/bigger bar on your same kite ...

[rodete]

Interesting!
I´ve two Cabrinha´s, Swicthblade´s, 2011 brand new 12 m , and a 2007 8m.
I´m not pretty sure if I can mix the bars, because there are different, the bigger the
kite, the bigger the bar. The new one have IDS, and the old one flags the kite on rear lines.

[JerseyPride]

Its all preference

theres a ton of wake dudes that cut their bar down to 35 cm so that the kite is not as reactive when passing the bar

and moving your hands around on the bar will not create the same effect

try it out. you wont die

[E-Rock]

From my humble experience I think the difference lies in 40-45 to 50-55. again we are talking CM's so pretty small overall. Previous post said it perfectly, you can always move your hands out on the bar. Really though to your specific question 60cm to 50-55? Most bars I have used the 55 is the largest bar that comes. So I would say 60 to 50-55 is nothing, but each kite is different so try it on the water. 40-60 bars are not gonna put you in a death loop just cause the kite to turn quicker or slower.

[Starsky]

Leverage on the kite ... easy on the elbows and affects turning speed response. Just move your hands in and out on the bar when initiating a turn to get a relative idea of a smaller/bigger bar on your same kite ...

Actually, a bigger bar can be much harder on the elbows unless you run your hands out near the bar ends, and really, the only people I see doing that are beginners! If your hands are the same distance from the centre hole on both short and long bars, the long bar will be much harder on your wrists and elbows. The fulcrum isn't the bar end, its the hole in the centre of the bar. The farther out your hands from that fulcrum, the less force required to turn the kite, but the bigger the arm movement. Thats the deal breaker for me.

I like rapid turning input with minimal movement, so I almost always fly with hands, or single hand near or at the middle of the bar. This way its really all wrist movement even when really working the kite. Pretty much requires a short bar or your elbows are toast! The trade off is less turning input to the kite than with long bars. Doesn't bother me these days, as I run a 10m as my big kite on a 49cm bar. Plenty fast with no real arm movement required. Short bars allow you to nicely fly with one hand straddling the depower line. Pretty sweet in waves, providing you have a fast enough kite.

My last quiver were C's so I ran a 14m for my big kite. Flew that on a 45cm bar and it was great. With a really short bar you have to crank it sometimes, but the leverage is such that its pretty easy on the wrist and you can basically point one bar end right at the kite to whip it around when needed. As mentioned, its also easier to keep a kite steady when you want to.

[tautologies]

I don't think using a longer / shorter bar it is the same as moving your hands. Here is why:

Moving your hands only changes your leverage on the bar ie. it will be heavier to pull as you move your hands towards the center.... You'll still pull the same amount of bar in. Longer bars, might be a little heavier, but you still turn as much as if you hold your hands and the bar-end.

I have no idea what the terminology is, but here is my take on this.

The principle of turning lies in pulling on one of the backlines, and at the same time relieving pressure on the opposite side. This deforms the wingtips, and there is a twisting motion / torque through the kite and it turns. So far I think we can all agree (?).

Now what I think and my experience is that if you use a too long bar (if the kite is designed for a shorter bar), the deformation becomes too extreme..there is too much torque and the kites supporting frame might be bending in a way the kite is not designed for.

[Peter_Frank]

Its all preference

theres a ton of wake dudes that cut their bar down to 35 cm so that the kite is not as reactive when passing the bar

and moving your hands around on the bar will not create the same effect

try it out. you wont die

True.

And the opposite is also seen - many wave kitesurfers use their long bar on the smallest kites also, to get it to be very fast and reactive

Kitesurfing is all about FEEL, meaning, a shorter bar turned at a higher angle would in theory give the same input to the kite, yes, BUT, as we can turn the kite with one hand without moving the bar much, it feels more reactive with a longer one

The force needed to turn the kite will actually be the same no matter what bar length - that is, if you dont have your hands at the center of the bar....

We naturally adjust the position to fit individually where it has a pleasant force when turning the kite, not too low nor too high - and not too awkvard a distance between hands.

But as said - because it is all about feel, the bar length DOES matter, and it is not the same moving your hands.

What one prefer is another matter, and you can ride with a short bar on a big kite if you want (or the opposite), no problems in that

Peter

[Windrider]

I use the same 55 cm bar on all my kites, from my EZE 13 down to my Rippehr 8m. I like the 55 cm on the small kites 'cause you can really get some fast turns on that puppy.

[Kamikuza]

Leverage on the kite ... easy on the elbows and affects turning speed response. Just move your hands in and out on the bar when initiating a turn to get a relative idea of a smaller/bigger bar on your same kite ...

Actually, a bigger bar can be much harder on the elbows unless you run your hands out near the bar ends, and really, the only people I see doing that are beginners! >snip<

You work the kite with your hands in the middle? No wonder y'all get sore elbows makes no sense.

My assumption was that people move their hands when they need to ie. working the kite the whole point of a bar is that you use the length of the bar as a mechanical advantage to decrease the bar pressure during working of the kite - by moving your hands out to the ends

As you note though, with your hands in the center of a longer bar (compared to a shorter bar on the same kite) you WILL feel more bar pressure, due to the mechanical DISadvantage of trying to move a longer lever from closer to the fulcrum point.

Religiously keeping your hands in the center regardless of situation sounds a little bloody minded to me ... like trying to drive a truck with a 14" Momo steering wheel cos it's so much cooler than that massive wide thing International installed

Each to their own. I rarely get sore elbows ... but then, I don't mind moving my hands when the situation requires it