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Custom Airstyle T-Handle Developement

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Macisback
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Re: Custom Airstyle Handlebar Developement - CNC production

Postby Macisback » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:17 pm

Tobi I need your feedback for the next prototype/custom so this time it is perfect and I can ship it.

Plese measure three things for me:

- How high is your instep (Rist) on its highest part (put a straight object on your foot and measure distance to floor)? (7cm?)
- How high is the space from your boardsurface till you touch the grip tape under the top part of the handle? (7,5 cm?)
- How thick is the grip tape on your handle in average? (3mm?)

And answer me the following questions please:

- How much space do you think you need above your instep (if any) (5mm)?
- Do you lock onto the handle at the highest part or more on the middle of your instep by pulling your foot upwards?
- What features do you expect from a T-Handle (in order of importance):
- Easy to catch with hand (therefore at least 7-8cm high)
- Easy to lock with foot when pressed up against handle (therefore not more then 6-7 cm high) so board doesnt move to much to side (angle of max 45 degree)
- Softly taped (3mm midhard foam) so you dont get hurt or hard grip (2xtape, tennis, waterproof boat grip tape) so it is more exact

Thanks

Macisback
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Re: Custom Airstyle Handlebar Developement - CNC production

Postby Macisback » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:26 pm

@ FrederikS

Take your time boy, learning is important :-)

For now no CNC for the handle needed, as your drawing is sufficient (maybe you can add the M6 measurement for the holes, so everyone can just give it to their tinner of choice?)

Reason why is, that the tinner said, the bent alloy is much more stiff and durable as compresssed than CNCed alloy.

But maybe later a CNC drawing for the grabrail (I plan one general one and one for the Flyboard Radicals) will be great, as it is so hard to cut it manually.
Maybe we can also produce the graps on the fins topside of the board.

@Tobi, should the grabs around the fins also be higher and does it make sense to have four of them?

Macisback
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Re: Custom Airstyle Handlebar Developement - CNC production

Postby Macisback » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:14 pm

@ Tobi: I just saw on my one, I gave it a extra 5mm height (and the foam of the Bike grip is exactly 5mm, so we end up with a lower edge of 8,5 cm like on the draft drawing)

Another difference I recognised when watching the Airstyle DVD - yours is about 1-2 cm less wide, as you have smaller flat parts where the screws are - is that for a reason (less sidewards movement possible)?

Anyhow last thing I recognised, yours seems to be a 3mm alloy, so maybe a 6mm alloy will fix the issue of breaking at the holes with a industry washer.

I guess I will glue the Bike grip with super glue - eeven though it only moves 1-2 mm, while holding it that can be 30 degree twist, guess thats gonna disturb when catching or throwing.

Let me know your thoughts

FrederikS
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Re: Custom Airstyle Handlebar Developement - CNC production

Postby FrederikS » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:29 pm

Macisback wrote:@ Tobi: I just saw on my one, I gave it a extra 5mm height (and the foam of the Bike grip is exactly 5mm, so we end up with a lower edge of 8,5 cm like on the draft drawing)

Another difference I recognised when watching the Airstyle DVD - yours is about 1-2 cm less wide, as you have smaller flat parts where the screws are - is that for a reason (less sidewards movement possible)?

Anyhow last thing I recognised, yours seems to be a 3mm alloy, so maybe a 6mm alloy will fix the issue of breaking at the holes with a industry washer.

I guess I will glue the Bike grip with super glue - eeven though it only moves 1-2 mm, while holding it that can be 30 degree twist, guess thats gonna disturb when catching or throwing.

Let me know your thoughts


I think you should use contact glue for water use as that works better for pads on boards. I think the foam material here is similar. Normal contact glue is no good it has to be the version intended for marine use.

Adding a thick washer in the bolt holes will help. It might also be worth spray coating the aluminum to further prevent oxidation (or use marine grade alloys 5-series, but that is expensive)

Cheers,
Fred

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Toby
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Re: Custom Airstyle Handlebar Developement - CNC production

Postby Toby » Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:18 pm

- How high is your instep (Rist) on its highest part (put a straight object on your foot and measure distance to floor)? (7cm?)

--> just before my leg where it is the highest? 9 cm

- How high is the space from your boardsurface till you touch the grip tape under the top part of the handle? (7,5 cm?)

--> 7.5 cm

- How thick is the grip tape on your handle in average? (3mm?)

--> the complete handle is up to 1.8 cm thick. Should not be too thin for a better grip

And answer me the following questions please:

- How much space do you think you need above your instep (if any) (5mm)?

--> doesn't matter, just should 7.5 cm from board surface to grip

- Do you lock onto the handle at the highest part or more on the middle of your instep by pulling your foot upwards?

--> my instep is higher, so somewhere before. to lock I have to move the foot up

- What features do you expect from a T-Handle (in order of importance):

1. Easy to catch with hand (therefore at least 7-8cm high)
2. Easy to lock with foot when pressed up against handle (therefore not more then 6-7 cm high) so board doesn't move to much to side (angle of max 45 degree)
3. Softly taped (3mm midhard foam) so you don't get hurt or hard grip (2xtape, tennis, waterproof boat grip tape) so it is more exact

--> the foam or grip tape has to be stiff, so it does not move in your hand. Hard grip tape is protection enough for injures, but needed for instant commands of the hand to not have any delay and you are less likely to slip of if harder.

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s1buell_wl
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Re: Custom Airstyle Handlebar Developement - CNC production

Postby s1buell_wl » Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:41 pm

Just to jump in here.

Will that foam will be an issue?

If you cover it with drip tape will it move allot when you spin the board or re-grab the board on kick-flips and hand spins. I think Toby touched on this already the handle needs to be wide enough at the "grip point" allowing your hand to grip and control/stop any momentum from spinning,flipping etc.

Macisback
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Re: Custom Airstyle Handlebar Developement - CNC production

Postby Macisback » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:47 pm

Hi again,

well I also have tape (tennis and marine grip tape) here, so I am sure I will test it soon.

To be able to stop the momentum it will be great to have a 3cm wide handle.
Also the 3cm will stop it from breaking (@ Tobi you have a 2,5 cm wide and 3mm thick handle I guess?)
I will also get my hands on some industry washers to send you, maybe some longer M6 screws too.

The foam will only be an issue if it moves too much, if glued sure not - well atm it only moves 1-2mm.
Explanation: this foam can be compressed down to 1mm /from 5mm. (but usually it wont compress more than 1-2mm - its a bike handle grip)

The two handles I have made so far I will send one to you and one to Tobi to extensivly test them, cause I am only snowkiting until April, but I wont glue it, so you can test it with the foam on and with tennis tape and grip tape on and glue it if you want (only needed: injection needle/superglue)

My next developement:

Use 6m alloy (maybe aircraft alloy), later if needed (in cae they are still breaking every 6 month) make the flat mounting parts a bit more wide (square shape), so pressure for sidemovements of the handle is more absorbed and maybe make the handle less wide around 1-1,5 cm like Tobis, so that sidemovement gets restricted.

@ Tobi - is that something good to do or more a meaningless exercise as it not an issue if it is too wide (13 cm with foam) but more important to use full width to be able to get inside the handle quick and to have more width to grab it? How wide is your Handle (alloy left to alloy right inside - my ones are 14cm atm)







My next prototype will be

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s1buell_wl
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Re: Custom Airstyle Handlebar Developement - CNC production

Postby s1buell_wl » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:34 am

Just to help out some more if I can

My handle is 4cm wide at grip point
from the board to bottom of handle is 5.5 (this is not enough). I think 7.5 would be great I think Toby is running 7.5cm now

Hard to get your foot in lol

Toby is right were it connects to the board is the weak point.

I think aircraft aluminum would be wicked strong.

My handle is wide and flat. I really like this it allows for great throw an spin control. But it's hard on your foot for one foot board tricks. I think if we can get good grip tape it will be the same.

Crazy session today on the 19m edge 15-17kns........ Toby oh what you are missing..... I will type a review in the morning. I'm going to try it in 20kns tomorrow. Someone call 911 for me around 3pm please

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Toby
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Re: Custom Airstyle Handlebar Developement - CNC production

Postby Toby » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:14 am

My handle has this:

alloy width: 3cm
left to right (inside): 13 cm
alloy thickness: 3mm

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s1buell_wl
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Re: Custom Airstyle Handlebar Developement - CNC production

Postby s1buell_wl » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:44 pm

Mine is the same
left to right (inside): 13 cm


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