Small kites jump higher? Nope!

[Zkatez]

Lots of theorie here. But higher or not. One way or the other. I guess we all agree Toby is going long and high and his technique, with big kites, is superior.

There is lots of talk on airstyle forum about getting Airstyle more populair. I think the best way to let it grow is when more kiters will show a decent level of airstyle on the beaches. So what is important imo is to share more knowledge about the technique. Of course I studied the dvd and all there is to read about going high. But I think the technique for big kites in more than usual windspeeds is for some part different. And maybe more difficult/precise than going high with smaller kites. Any how, I can hold my 18m on small board comfortably around 20 knots. I am lighter then Toby with my 77kg. I do Board-off’s. But there is no way (so far) I can get that high.

I would like to share, more advanced advice, with other oldschool kiters. Let me start by saying that for me there is a difference in sending the kite. Bigger kites in stronger winds, you do not send much. Just small movement from close to 12 to 12 (or just over).
Of course you need as much speed and power in the kite as possible and control over edging. And so it all comes down to getting all the energy (for take-off) as compact as possible (like with shooting a bullet). But that is easier said than done, I find it hard to get it just right. Is timing more critical with bigger kites? Are there any tips to be givin in the timing off the 4 parts:
-the position off the kite
-pointing board upwind
-popping back foot
-getting bar down

Some people here must have struggled with this and come out wiser. Do you think it is mainly timing or more executing the individual parts. And are there ways to train the individual parts? What did help you to come higher?

[s1buell_wl]

Many people can give you advice but I would suggest you make a video of a few jumps and post them for advice

This makes things so much easier and takes the guess work out of it.

[Toby]

Zkatez: which kite are you using?

Weight and size of board are also important. I have more weight to push onto the board.
Water conditions are important as well...in a choppy ocean you don't jump as high as on a flat water lagoon!
But after all, it is also a lot of practice...I do this since 13 years...and always jumped!

Many people can give you advice but I would suggest you make a video of a few jumps and post them for advice

This makes things so much easier and takes the guess work out of it.

very good idea, that should show us what you differently.

[downunder]

About 60kg so no comparison here with 75+:) Flat water, no ramps, TT, 12m VX.

I've found that when I lean towards water, push off the bar, fly to ~12, pull the bar and in a same time straighten my body vertically very fast - that slingshots me in the air. Big air.

If after the take off I bend my knees so the board touches my butt (sort off), that's even bigger air (less body drag?).

But, maybe Toby is using a thermalling coz he knows where to catch one in his local:)

[ed257]

My large kite jumping technique with large kites must be off. I can jump really well with a 10, pretty good with a 12, but with my 14 not so well.

I find the timing is different on each of these kites.

With the 10 I send and carve upwind at about the same time.

With the 12 I initiate sending kite then immediately carve up wind.

With the 14, I send the kite, then after a second or so delay carve up wind. If I carve too early the kite has not cleared 12 before my board speed and line tensions decrease.

Any suggestions for going bigger on large kites?

thx,

Ed

[TheJoe]

My large kite jumping technique with large kites must be off. I can jump really well with a 10, pretty good with a 12, but with my 14 not so well.

I find the timing is different on each of these kites.

With the 10 I send and carve upwind at about the same time.

With the 12 I initiate sending kite then immediately carve up wind.

With the 14, I send the kite, then after a second or so delay carve up wind. If I carve too early the kite has not cleared 12 before my board speed and line tensions decrease.

Any suggestions for going bigger on large kites?

thx,

Ed

Try not sending the kite but have it parked high to begin with. Ride over powered a bit get some speed up and just edge hard and pop with a little tug of the back hand. It works really well on my 13m Fuel. If I try to send it I usually just pendulum under the kite and get about half the height.

To be honest I only do big air when the wind is to crazy to try freestyle so my advice might not be the best.

[Zkatez]

Zkatez: which kite are you using?

Weight and size of board are also important. I have more weight to push onto the board.
Water conditions are important as well...in a choppy ocean you don't jump as high as on a flat water lagoon!
But after all, it is also a lot of practice...I do this since 13 years...and always jumped!

Many people can give you advice but I would suggest you make a video of a few jumps and post them for advice

This makes things so much easier and takes the guess work out of it.

very good idea, that should show us what you differently.

My big kite is the Dyno 18 (2011), also have rebel 16 and 14. Small board 128x38.
I realise there is a weight difference. I sail 18m up to (or around) 20 knts on flat water. Can hold edge comfortably.
I think you are a lot more explosive in your movements for take-off then I am. Did you found that important for you. Trying to work on that now, after seeing myself on video for the first this year.

But my initial idea was that it might be a good to have every bodies advice/tips of how they improved. What hold them back and what made them better. Did you yourself never had certain issues in getting better?

[s1buell_wl]

Good idea (new thread)
post the video on vimo or utube then link it here

My .02 on jumping (I find it hard to describe jumping and how I do it)

You know what I have the reverse. I've been on big kite now too long and have a hard time jumping with the small kites. I had a fuel out the other day and just could not get things to work.

For me (kickers)

1. I see the wave, gain speed and load the kite up holding quite a bit of speed leaning back a fare bit.
Just before the the base of the wave I SEND the kite (throw that big bastard) but not pulling the bar (keeping all the energy).

2. Using the belly of the wave I kick hard and pull in the bar joining and releasing all the energy me and the kite have.

keep in mind these two movements are fractions of a second apart...

For most people I see to things

1. Its a timing thing (bad timing)
2. Fear... Be aggressive build speed,power and kick that wave!

I see so many people try to jump without aggression and confidence. Just flying the kite slowly move the kite to 12 pull the bar and jump a meter.

Put it in your mind that your are going to do the biggest aggressive jump you've ever done then go do it!!!!!!

speed, speed, power, power and more power will transition into height once you get the timing and confidence.

cheers
my .02

[Zkatez]

Good idea (new thread)
post the video on vimo or utube then link it here

My .02 on jumping (I find it hard to describe jumping and how I do it)

You know what I have the reverse. I've been on big kite now too long and have a hard time jumping with the small kites. I had a fuel out the other day and just could not get things to work.

For me (kickers)

1. I see the wave, gain speed and load the kite up holding quite a bit of speed leaning back a fare bit.
Just before the the base of the wave I SEND the kite (throw that big bastard) but not pulling the bar (keeping all the energy).

2. Using the belly of the wave I kick hard and pull in the bar joining and releasing all the energy me and the kite have.

keep in mind these two movements are fractions of a second apart...

For most people I see to things

1. Its a timing thing (bad timing)
2. Fear... Be aggressive build speed,power and kick that wave!

I see so many people try to jump without aggression and confidence. Just flying the kite slowly move the kite to 12 pull the bar and jump a meter.

Put it in your mind that your are going to do the biggest aggressive jump you've ever done then go do it!!!!!!

speed, speed, power, power and more power will transition into height once you get the timing and confidence.

cheers
my .02

Thx.
Think I will get it to work on Youtube. So will post a new thread. Keep an eye out for it.

I would like some off those kickers. Hard to find where i live. Sea mostly messy. But have few flat water spots.

Very well possible that I should be more agressive, more explosive. I am a long distance sporter. My musscles find it hard to sprint and be explosive. But am trying. Fear is also factor. For a normal straight jump not so much, but if I intend to do trick, I would like to have controlled take-off. And there for come less high.

[Toby]

you need power!
get speed, hit a little kick, steer the kite not too much into zenith, pull the bar full power in and pop hard.
Be aggressive and yank it! Then you will go up!
And with a Dyno 2011 18 you don't need fear! Just make sure the kite is above you and nothing gonna happen to you...it will be all soft and gentle!!!

That is the advantage of the Dyno 2011...just a great kite to loose fear and do all that stuff.
I owe my tricks to this kite...any new trick idea I just do, and don't fear anything.
With my Rebel 16 it is already a different story...

Yes, put up the video onto youtube and start a new topic!