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 Post subject: Small kites jump higher? Nope!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:33 pm 
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Today out with 18 sqm in up to 25 knots...some freestyle kids jumping with their 9 sqm kites (e.g. Vegas 2014).

But, 18 jumps higher! ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:54 pm 
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Well we are not all as dangerous as you Toby. 18m in 25knots is just unsafe and well outside the kites designed wind range.

Be safe and don't become another statistic! I know you think you are safe on a big kite in moderate winds. But more people die on large kites in these winds than small kites in higher winds.

That being said a 9m is only just starting to charge in 25 knots Its not really a fair test.
It would be interesting to compare a well powered 11/12/13m to your heniously overpowered 18m.

On a side note I will jump higher on my 13m in 25 knots than my 10m. but by 28-30 knots my 10m is jumping higher than what i can on the 13.


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 Post subject: Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:20 am 
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I have to go with Plummet on this. This is not even a comparison actually. For you to actually make that claim you would have to measure the amount of lift your 18 is generating and then have the wind for same lift on a 9m. My money is on the 9m winning then.


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 Post subject: Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:30 am 
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plummet wrote:
more people die on large kites in these winds than small kites in higher winds.


more people die in high winds on small kites than large kites in moderate winds. toby is a very safe kiter, doesn't go out when it starts to nuke. a 7m in 35 knots is a lot more dangerous than an 18 in 25. The reason is that the there is so much more kinetic energy (about twice as much) at 35 knots over 25 knots.

Just think about this thought experiment, get a 100,000 meter kite. And it is blowing 2 knots. It is going to be extremely difficult to kill yourself even tho the total pressure is something like 3 tons of pressure. But suppose you are on a 1 meter kite and it is blowing 100 knots that's like 100 pound of pressure. In either case you can't resist the kite. You go downwind at wind speed. In one case you go downwind at 2 knots. In other case you go downwind at 100 knots.

I love huge winds, 35, 40, 45 knots the more the better. Those winds are dangerous no matter how tiny your kite is.

The reason that small kites jump higher is you use them in higher winds.


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 Post subject: Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:51 am 
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Good going Toby :thumb:
Wish I was getting more time on the water to practice.

Whatever you are personally comfortable with. I ride generally more powered than the rest but that does not make me unsafe.


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 Post subject: Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:32 am 
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ok. toby, i like my 16m dyno . my go to kite is my 12m rebel though because . some days ill try to squeak out a session on the 12 opposed to the 16 because i know how to send it. after many a session on my 16 i cant quite figure out how to send it like you do.
speed, hold the edge, send it, release edge. i even make sure i dont sheet the bar out before sending. ive learned from my go pro im loosing hangtime by sheeting out. i am a proud ownwer of your airstlye dvd. seems like magic to me.
how do you hold it down to float like you do?!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:46 am 
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edt wrote:
plummet wrote:
more people die on large kites in these winds than small kites in higher winds.


more people die in high winds on small kites than large kites in moderate winds. toby is a very safe kiter, doesn't go out when it starts to nuke. a 7m in 35 knots is a lot more dangerous than an 18 in 25. The reason is that the there is so much more kinetic energy (about twice as much) at 35 knots over 25 knots.


Well from what I from the deaths that are posted on this forum the most common wind speed to kill people is between 25-30 knots.

Usually the victum has rigged a big kite for light conditions the wind increases and he/she gets overpowered looses control and dies in and around the 25-30 knot mark.

Flying an overpowered kite is more dangerous that flying a properly powered kite within its wind range. Fly an 18m in 25 knots is most certainly more dangerous than a 7m in 35. The 7m is still within its wind range the 18m is not.

Regardless of how skilled Toby is. He is still flying overpowered and endangering himself and others with that kite at that wind speed.


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 Post subject: Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:54 am 
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plummet wrote:
edt wrote:
plummet wrote:
more people die on large kites in these winds than small kites in higher winds.


more people die in high winds on small kites than large kites in moderate winds. toby is a very safe kiter, doesn't go out when it starts to nuke. a 7m in 35 knots is a lot more dangerous than an 18 in 25. The reason is that the there is so much more kinetic energy (about twice as much) at 35 knots over 25 knots.


Well from what I from the deaths that are posted on this forum the most common wind speed to kill people is between 25-30 knots.

Usually the victum has rigged a big kite for light conditions the wind increases and he/she gets overpowered looses control and dies in and around the 25-30 knot mark.

Flying an overpowered kite is more dangerous that flying a properly powered kite within its wind range. Fly an 18m in 25 knots is most certainly more dangerous than a 7m in 35. The 7m is still within its wind range the 18m is not.

Regardless of how skilled Toby is. He is still flying overpowered and endangering himself and others with that kite at that wind speed.



Plummet, the records are not done by a chicken:)


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 Post subject: Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:08 am 
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plummet wrote:
edt wrote:
plummet wrote:
more people die on large kites in these winds than small kites in higher winds.


more people die in high winds on small kites than large kites in moderate winds. toby is a very safe kiter, doesn't go out when it starts to nuke. a 7m in 35 knots is a lot more dangerous than an 18 in 25. The reason is that the there is so much more kinetic energy (about twice as much) at 35 knots over 25 knots.


Well from what I from the deaths that are posted on this forum the most common wind speed to kill people is between 25-30 knots.

Usually the victum has rigged a big kite for light conditions the wind increases and he/she gets overpowered looses control and dies in and around the 25-30 knot mark.

Flying an overpowered kite is more dangerous that flying a properly powered kite within its wind range. Fly an 18m in 25 knots is most certainly more dangerous than a 7m in 35. The 7m is still within its wind range the 18m is not.

Regardless of how skilled Toby is. He is still flying overpowered and endangering himself and others with that kite at that wind speed.


I agree with you plummit 100% ... Not following that big kite logic, as far as safety goes.

In all sports it is often the athletes performing at the highest levels that get hurt or killed. They are the ones pushing the envelope between high performance and high risk.


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 Post subject: Re: Small kites jump higher? Nope!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:18 am 
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I knew its gonna be an interesting discussion ;-)

First we should define "overpowered".
Does it mean to have too much power for being controlled?

I for myself consider me well powered, with a lot of control, even if my kites start to fly a bit foward.

It would be interesting to know the stats for fatalities on land and water, in relation with kite sizes.
Then also with not safe behaviour on land.

I would say 80% of the kiters act unsafe on the beach.

If everyone knows how to handle bigger kites and its power, they can do even so in wind changes.

I learned on two line kites, no QR, no depower.
We had to pay attention to safety all the time.
Who does this nowadays? Too few.

And if it is so dangerous what I do, why does almost nothing happen to me (knock knock) ?
Although I am pushing the limits of tricks?
Because a slow kite is safer and I pay a lot of attention on land when launching and landing.
I also check forecasts, don't go when bad weather forecasted and avoid strong winds.

I am endangering myself less with my big kite and for sure less others, specially since I do not unhook and crash my kite and its lines the whole time.


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