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2015 Rebel 18 Airstyle Review

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Toby
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Re: 2015 Rebel 18 Airstyle Review

Postby Toby » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:52 am

I fly the 2012 5th Line Bar with all my kites. Dynos, protos and Rebel 18.

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Toby
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Re: 2015 Rebel 18 Airstyle Review

Postby Toby » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:39 pm

few more pictures:
Attachments
Rebel 18 1.jpg
Rebel 18 2.jpg

Westozzy
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Re: 2015 Rebel 18 Airstyle Review

Postby Westozzy » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:22 am

Damn that's a big open centre section!!

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Re: 2015 Rebel 18 Airstyle Review

Postby Black Jack » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:14 am

Toby wrote:I fly the 2012 5th Line Bar with all my kites. Dynos, protos and Rebel 18.
Thanks Toby, just wishful thinking on my part.
Last edited by Black Jack on Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Toby
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Re: 2015 Rebel 18 Airstyle Review

Postby Toby » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:16 am

It can work.
You need a 3D printer and then you can make your own plastic hook that fits on the 2015 rotor head. The loop you can attach where the screws are, just use screws with a thicker head.

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Re: 2015 Rebel 18 Airstyle Review

Postby Black Jack » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:35 am

Toby wrote:It can work.
You need a 3D printer and then you can make your own plastic hook that fits on the 2015 rotor head. The loop you can attach where the screws are, just use screws with a thicker head.
I have a 3D printer so will prototype with this and injection mould a stronger part once satisfied with result. From the photos I've seen the spacing for the loop looks too close on the 2015 Bar. I will try this first though as this will be an easy solution, otherwise I think I can make a replacement part to fit over the bar. Will see what I come up with and post solution. Thanks for advice.

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Toby
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Re: 2015 Rebel 18 Airstyle Review

Postby Toby » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:01 am

ok, show us the result! :thumb:

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Re: 2015 Rebel 18 Airstyle Review

Postby eree » Sat Aug 23, 2014 6:39 pm

Toby wrote:Hi guys,
...
Important to know is that the Rebel 18 does not have the low end like the Dyno 2011.
With the Rebel 18 North wanted to continue the character of the Rebels, easy handling, performance and good high end.
The Rebel 18 has a good feel on the bar, not as heavy as the Dyno 2011, but you can feel the kite with no problem
Toby wrote:A heavy rider can use this kite for stronger winds, if they still want the feel of an 18 to land their tricks
...
I am happy to have this kite, since it opens the stronger winds for me and my tricks.
I will persuade North now to do an Airstyle Kite for 2016 with more low end like the 2011 Dyno.
Then they will have a good choice for lighter and heavier riders
so nothing new, again the low wing profile kite good only for the lite weight kiters and the ideal conditions. if i wanted that I'd buy the race kite!
i know already that low wing profile kite makes me use at least one size bigger kite than not so called "high performance" profile kite.
those lower profile kites are bad airstyle kites because their lift is dependent on the air speed, and when kiter gets airborne kites air speed drops, so does the lift and kite goes down.
that is why '11 Dynos with their higher profile are good airstyle kites and not so good race kites.
anyway worthless for heavy rider, and liter rider can still use the race kite. so why do you need 2015 Rebel 18 sqm?
i understand Toby can not criticize too much the North product, other wise he can lose all those prototype testing opportunities. so i wouldn't take it dead serious
Toby wrote:So, for whom is the kite good for you will ask yourself?
For me it replaces my Rebel 16 from 2010. The 16 turned faster which made me crash with rotating tricks when going big because it steered faster. Now I have the same wind range, 2 sqm more for more hangtime and slower steering
all those bar pressure and turning speed qualities are easily adjusted by the bridle configurations, you don't have to change the wing profile or wings aspect ratio for this

eree
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Re: 2015 Rebel 18 Airstyle Review

Postby eree » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:49 pm

Toby wrote:Once the kite has power, it has a very good lift and hangtime. By removing the center strut it adds more hangtime
Westozzy wrote:Damn that's a big open centre section!!
by what physical formula or simple logic removing the strut adds any hang time?
central part of the wing is most important, it is the part that creates lift!!!!! the wing tips only create drag...
removing the central strut is equivalent to reducing the wing surface. no aerodynamic profile - no lift. unless distance between the struts closest to the middle of the kite is less than ca 1,5 meters.

no central strut - no wing profile support. i saw best kahoonas and genetrix canopy folding an wrinkling at the center of the wing numerously. certainly not the good aerodynamic profile! in fact genetrix could not even find the decent pictures with the smooth canopy of its kites so they simply remove them from their page. only way canopy without the central strut will work if the distance between the struts on the top of the canopy is less than 1,5 meters. just like airush 2009 flow or some older takoon kites.

all the tech talks about saving weight are the bs, because why stop on 6 struts, lets make it 5 or 4 or 3 then?
and totally logic- and science-free "clean air flow" argument is ridiculous. why then '15 Rebel 18 sqm has 3 struts on each wing tip? doesn't wing tip needs "clean air flows" too? wing tips are the parts of the same kite you know, so if the strut disturbs the air flow on the center of the wing it will certainly do it on the wing tips.

and of course all the luffing effects talks are so ridiculous and ignorant that i don't even being able to talk about it calmly! we have been blessed with the discovery of the curved wing lift force and (without calling the names) some kite designers as it seems to me without any professional knowledge and purely marketing department driven just ignore it and declare the lowest wing profile the "high performance" profile! :evil:

if you want low wing profile in the center just make the central strut with the low profile and cut the number of the struts on the wing tips...

sorry Starsky, another neg. but i can not stop trying to make the kites and kiting better for all of us

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Re: 2015 Rebel 18 Airstyle Review

Postby Zkatez » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:57 pm

eree wrote:
Toby wrote:Hi guys,
...
Important to know is that the Rebel 18 does not have the low end like the Dyno 2011.
With the Rebel 18 North wanted to continue the character of the Rebels, easy handling, performance and good high end.
The Rebel 18 has a good feel on the bar, not as heavy as the Dyno 2011, but you can feel the kite with no problem
Toby wrote:A heavy rider can use this kite for stronger winds, if they still want the feel of an 18 to land their tricks
...
I am happy to have this kite, since it opens the stronger winds for me and my tricks.
I will persuade North now to do an Airstyle Kite for 2016 with more low end like the 2011 Dyno.
Then they will have a good choice for lighter and heavier riders
so nothing new, again the low wing profile kite good only for the lite weight kiters and the ideal conditions. if i wanted that I'd buy the race kite!
i know already that low wing profile kite makes me use at least one size bigger kite than not so called "high performance" profile kite.
those lower profile kites are bad airstyle kites because their lift is dependent on the air speed, and when kiter gets airborne kites air speed drops, so does the lift and kite goes down.
that is why '11 Dynos with their higher profile are good airstyle kites and not so good race kites.
anyway worthless for heavy rider, and liter rider can still use the race kite. so why do you need 2015 Rebel 18 sqm?
i understand Toby can not criticize too much the North product, other wise he can lose all those prototype testing opportunities. so i wouldn't take it dead serious
Toby wrote:So, for whom is the kite good for you will ask yourself?
For me it replaces my Rebel 16 from 2010. The 16 turned faster which made me crash with rotating tricks when going big because it steered faster. Now I have the same wind range, 2 sqm more for more hangtime and slower steering
all those bar pressure and turning speed qualities are easily adjusted by the bridle configurations, you don't have to change the wing profile or wings aspect ratio for this

Hi eree,

I follow your reasoning, and tend to agree. Accept for the part about lighter riders. why would they not profit from deeper profile, same as the heavier guys??. I am lighter and like dyno
too. Just bring it up to 12 and let the wind give me the hangtime, without thinking to much about the kite, as I would with racekite. Or do you see this different?


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