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How small a foilboard can be for very light wind?

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Peter_Frank
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Re: How small a foilboard can be for very light wind?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:57 pm

Well, I have experienced the opposite - riding medium or very small boards a lot of the time earlier, but later finding that particularly in the most marginal conditions, a bigger wing (of course) and a LOT bigger board makes such a big difference you wont believe it, no matter if using a racefoilkite or a LEI.
And no, not talking about so much wind that you can foil on the first dive or loop, but even here there will be a difference in "how low can you go", but most dont know as they never compare...

Using a small wing and a big board would never make sense in my eyes, as not racing, and even racers dont do this in marginal winds.

We are apparantly having very different experiences it seems :roll:

8) PF

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Re: How small a foilboard can be for very light wind?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:03 pm

Ive now the Moses Onda 633, tested today with 20 knots, quite curious to test in marginal winds, but im not so sure about being "better" then the race or intermediate wing, completly different world this wing.
Last edited by Pedro Marcos on Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How small a foilboard can be for very light wind?

Postby Foil » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:49 pm

Pedro Marcos wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:03 pm
I have the Moses Onda 683, tested today with 20 knots, quite curious to test in marginal winds, but im not so sure about being "better" then the race or intermediate wing, completly different world this wing.
I have the Onda 633 wing set up, I was turned off the 683 from test reports on a standard foil board, and up to now of one session at 10knts on a 12mtr, and the next day at 16knts on a 10 mtr, both on the Moses T60 board, the first day on a 61cm mast and the second day on a 101cm mast (due to the size of the waves -4ft-5ft)
I have nothing but positive results to report, I even think the 633 wing will be my most used wing this year, yesterday I stayed out for 4 hours without a break, the experience was awesome, my biggest wing but the most nimble, how does that work? and I have the full set of Moses wings, apart from the 683.
speed on to the fly can catch you out, its nothing less than explosive, instant, cork from a bottle.
Top speed is good but its hard to judge as its so smooth, surgically precise, sharp knife through butter.
stability is unbelievable, stall speed is so low its needs a handbrake to stop.
it inspires confidence.

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Re: How small a foilboard can be for very light wind?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:58 am

Foil wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:49 pm
Pedro Marcos wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:03 pm
I have the Moses Onda 683, tested today with 20 knots, quite curious to test in marginal winds, but im not so sure about being "better" then the race or intermediate wing, completly different world this wing.
I have the Onda 633 wing set up, I was turned off the 683 from test reports on a standard foil board, and up to now of one session at 10knts on a 12mtr, and the next day at 16knts on a 10 mtr, both on the Moses T60 board, the first day on a 61cm mast and the second day on a 101cm mast (due to the size of the waves -4ft-5ft)
I have nothing but positive results to report, I even think the 633 wing will be my most used wing this year, yesterday I stayed out for 4 hours without a break, the experience was awesome, my biggest wing but the most nimble, how does that work? and I have the full set of Moses wings, apart from the 683.
speed on to the fly can catch you out, its nothing less than explosive, instant, cork from a bottle.
Top speed is good but its hard to judge as its so smooth, surgically precise, sharp knife through butter.
stability is unbelievable, stall speed is so low its needs a handbrake to stop.
it inspires confidence.
Sorry ive the 633 as well, i keep getting those two number mixed

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Re: How small a foilboard can be for very light wind?

Postby foilonfoil » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:50 am

My minimum is around 7kts and its a struggle with a 18M foil kite to get a water start. It will likely take me two loops - The first to get up and the second to get on foil. Smaller board is a liability - You need some volume under you as you get upright. Its hard work and worst case I am swimming home if I blow a transition... Got to keep that kite moving/looping.

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Re: How small a foilboard can be for very light wind?

Postby Foil » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:47 am

foilonfoil wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:50 am
My minimum is around 7kts and its a struggle with a 18M foil kite to get a water start. It will likely take me two loops - The first to get up and the second to get on foil. Smaller board is a liability - You need some volume under you as you get upright. Its hard work and worst case I am swimming home if I blow a transition... Got to keep that kite moving/looping.
this raises another point which I have witnessed myself, and at first sight it blew my mind as no one had ever talked about it,
I was stood on the beach around 7 weeks back at Flag beach fuerteventura,warm thin air blowing at a measured 5knts.
Pro racer Florian Gruber x world champion swam out with his kit for a session and of course a group of us stood there wondering how he would get going as the
5knts was the maximum seen on the gauge and we were stood high up above the water line with a steep bank of sand below us to the water line so this was increasing the wind flow to the hand gauge.
Florian swam out quite a distance in the dead onshore breeze for a good reason as when he started his first kite loop he pointed his high volume race board board straight at the beach,as he stood up he began to rapidly pump his board until he was up on the fly, he then swung the board up to wind and flew off at warp speed, I was stood there in disbelief with the guy next to me holding the wind meter shaking the device as if it was broke and it needed a nudge to work properly.

this makes you wonder about how much the floaty volume of his board helped bounce him back up as he depressed down on the board, and how the average skill type of rider would also benefit from using a large front pump style wing to develop that strong lifting force onto the fly.

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Re: How small a foilboard can be for very light wind?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:18 am

foilonfoil wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:50 am
My minimum is around 7kts and its a struggle with a 18M foil kite to get a water start. It will likely take me two loops - The first to get up and the second to get on foil. Smaller board is a liability - You need some volume under you as you get upright. Its hard work and worst case I am swimming home if I blow a transition... Got to keep that kite moving/looping.
Which hidrofoil and which 18m foil kite ? With my 17m im fully powered @ 7 knots dont even need to loop it.

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Re: How small a foilboard can be for very light wind?

Postby foilonfoil » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:19 am

Pedro Marcos wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:18 am
foilonfoil wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:50 am
My minimum is around 7kts and its a struggle with a 18M foil kite to get a water start. It will likely take me two loops - The first to get up and the second to get on foil. Smaller board is a liability - You need some volume under you as you get upright. Its hard work and worst case I am swimming home if I blow a transition... Got to keep that kite moving/looping.
Which hidrofoil and which 18m foil kite ? With my 17m im fully powered @ 7 knots dont even need to loop it.
18M Sonic 2 and a MikesLab - It is absolutely my minimum.

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Re: How small a foilboard can be for very light wind?

Postby tomtom » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:32 am

Hi All of you.

I have question i think related to this subject. Im now making my new strapless board 130x48 - Ketos pocket board / Groove skate - inspired. I can make it either 2cm thick so it will have 10l volume or 4 cm thick so it will have 20l volume. Both will be sufficiently stiff and I much prefer 2 cm because I can laminate it in one shot /for 4 cm i must use different 2 shot process/.
My wing is big Moses Onda 633. So my question is: Do these 10l makes significant difference in marginal wind /on board this small/? My weight is 90kg.

Many thanks!

Tomas

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Re: How small a foilboard can be for very light wind?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:02 am

tomtom wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:32 am
Hi All of you.

I have question i think related to this subject. Im now making my new strapless board 130x48 - Ketos pocket board / Groove skate - inspired. I can make it either 2cm thick so it will have 10l volume or 4 cm thick so it will have 20l volume. Both will be sufficiently stiff and I much prefer 2 cm because I can laminate it in one shot /for 4 cm i must use different 2 shot process/.
My wing is big Moses Onda 633. So my question is: Do these 10l makes significant difference in marginal wind /on board this small/? My weight is 90kg.

Many thanks!

Tomas

Hi Tomas.

I think it does make a big difference yes, the thicker one will be much better if you ride in light winds.

Having said that, I think I would make it thin, as you can use it as an overall board, for high winds and lighter winds (but not marginal winds no matter what anyways even if thick).
Being thin it is easy to push sideways through smaller or bigger waves when going out to deeper water, easy to waterstart when windy, and it is easier for you to build you write.

And then get or make another board for marginal winds.

I got a board that size, and some smaller and some bigger.
Of course these bigger are not only thicker, but also more area so not a direct comparison, but one can still feel how big a part volume has.

With a 2 cm 130 x 48 board, even at my 77 kg, I can forget about riding in marginal winds with this one - it sits too deep thus becomes too draggy so no way I can get up foiling when marginal winds, not even with my really big wing :o

If you plan to have only one board, and you really want it to cover lighter winds too, I would make it thicker when 90 kg.

Problem is, others seem to say the opposite, that volume does not matter, only area - but IMO it does, a lot.

8) PF


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