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Do foil kites stay in the air better?

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neilhapgood
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Do foil kites stay in the air better?

Postby neilhapgood » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:55 am

Hi folks,

Sorry another foil kite vs lei question here.

I have a one strut 12m lei but my sticking point when really light is getting in the water as there is normally breaking swell up to about chest deep so when walking out I invariably get swept back a metre or so at some point and often this causes the kite to drop. Would a foil kite stay in the air better in this scenario?

Thanks
.

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Do foil kites stay in the air better?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:55 am

Unless is really gusty, i think a foil kite will always stay in the air better BUT not a good idea to learn to use a foil kite in light wind WITH waves, you will drop it because of lack of tecnique, not because it doesnt stay in the air.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: Do foil kites stay in the air better?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:26 am

I would not be general on this point : some light strutless (gong, Cloud) hang in the air at least as good as relatively heavy foilkites like FS S3 or sonic fr or Ozone R1v1. And it is even reinforced if the rider is not used to foilkites like you say.

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Do foil kites stay in the air better?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:34 am

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:26 am
I would not be general on this point : some light strutless (gong, Cloud) hang in the air at least as good as relatively heavy foilkites like FS S3 or sonic fr or Ozone R1v1. And it is even reinforced if the rider is not used to foilkites like you say.
Yes true, strutless are the exception, i had a storm voyager that flied in much less wind than it could waterstart, but doesnt compare to a foil kite in ultralight material.

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Re: Do foil kites stay in the air better?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:04 am

Yes we are in line : ultralight foil is the best and far better than one strut LEI.
Including relaunch if not in waves.

(I rode a bit quick and thought neilhapgood already has a strutless, my pardon)

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Do foil kites stay in the air better?

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:31 pm

The light LEI actually handles extremely well in marginal winds.

The superlight strutless one are exceptional.

Where a normal race foil kite can not match, because it drops easier and folds if wind is gusty, so a lot more tricky.

In steady winds, the UL foil kites are awesome, but the UL strutless LEI can really hang without the same issues nor risk, in marginal winds.

BUT, they can not ride in the same low wind as the foil kites, as Pedro also writes, not sufficient (peak) power eventhough they hang really well.

You only asked which type hangs in the air the best, and they are pretty close the UL ones both LEI and foil kites IMO.
But LEI a notch better than most foil kites if wind shifts or changes because of their rigid structure, and the foilkites definitely the ones that can give you the best options to ride in the lowest wind, but at a higher practical cost if it goes wrong of course :wink:

Impossible to say anything in general as particularly foil kites are so different, but still....

8) PF

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Re: Do foil kites stay in the air better?

Postby joriws » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:08 pm

To answer this. It depends. For sure foil kite can be flown in 0kn wind just by giving pull via front lines. Pull distributes via front and back lines and mixer and typical foil flies beautiful on apparent wind.

Then different question is foil kite design against front collapse. You'd take foil kite to zenith and then run downwind to slack lines and to see what your kite does.

Many foils drift nicely and long time because true wind's lift and balanced center of mass & built cause kite to backstall. Some foil kite may start front stall and collapse. Sonic-fr v1 was easy to front collapse. With Sonic-fr v1 you could sometimes save it if you were quick.

In LEI world front heavy design causes kite to hindenburg down. Or all steering input to counter frontal heaviness although kite stays in the air but breathless.

--

About flying foil kite in apparent wind mostly it is possible and even have some power. For example with downhill skis I've hit inversion and lost wind. I was able to kite back with 12m Speed3dlx to my bag 2km with ski kicking and taking power so I was moving much faster than just kicking I ever could.

Similar thing I am thinking if you could pump hydrofoil and milk the kite virtually on wind where foil kite does not fly without apparent wind help.

Maybe Mr. Horst Sergio proves that to us that it can be done in 2kn winds.

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Re: Do foil kites stay in the air better?

Postby foilholio » Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:53 am

neilhapgood wrote: I invariably get swept back a metre or so at some point and often this causes the kite to drop

As someone who surfkites foil kites exclusively, just about any foil kite will have no problem with what you are describing. Some LEIs drift,but all foils drift.
LEIs are easier to drift but less capable, drop faster and can hindeburg. Foils drift best at 12oclock, LEI can drift better than foils in lower positions but will still drop faster. Lower aspect, lighter and more C shaped foils drift better.

If you are looking to test the waters with a foil kite, consider the Pansh A15 12m in Ultralight. At $498 new it is very cheap. I dare say you will be very impressed with it and it will out perform your 12m single strut. Here viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2400411 is a review of the same kite by someone new the foil kites.

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Re: Do foil kites stay in the air better?

Postby nayy » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:54 pm

neilhapgood wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:55 am
Hi folks,

Sorry another foil kite vs lei question here.

I have a one strut 12m lei but my sticking point when really light is getting in the water as there is normally breaking swell up to about chest deep so when walking out I invariably get swept back a metre or so at some point and often this causes the kite to drop. Would a foil kite stay in the air better in this scenario?

Thanks
.
Have the same problem as you... tired of the kite falling out the sky in marginal conditions when going backwards in sea... 1 meter wave, slack lines and the kite drops...

I just bought a strutless kite 12m²... I also considered UL foilkites... but the strutless was only 1/3 of the price of a UL foilkite...

I don't have my kite yet... arriving end of next week...

Nayy

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Re: Do foil kites stay in the air better?

Postby Mossy 757 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:56 pm

From what you're describing, it sounds like you could probably get an ultralight LEI and see a benefit. You could also get a foil kite and see a benefit, but probably only slightly more than an LEI, and only after you mastered the intricacies specific to foil kites.

I was disappointed with how much practice was required to scrape the low end when I bought my first foil kite. They will widen your wind range, but not by this massive magical amount. A low wind day with onshore waves is still a low wind day with onshore waves, no matter how well your new ultralight race foil might ride once you're up and going 10+ knots through the water.

So if you're coming from a bomb-proof, ultra heavy wave kite 12m, then any kite that's appreciably lighter will probably do you well. If you're coming from an already light, low-wind 12m, then you probably won't feel great about your investment in a foil kite until you've had a dozen or more light wind sessions with it; you'll probably swim home from a few of these sessions, so be forewarned.

All that said, I really don't see myself switching back to LEIs any time soon. Having flown the 11m Lecca-Lecca Minima, it's the kite I'd recommend for people with a heavy LEI who are looking to expand their wind range. Considering it's cheaper than most comparably sized LEIs, it's a fairly low-risk investment. I have not ridden the 15m, but if it's anything like the 11m, it
would be a very strong choice for the lowest of winds given its weight/cost/performance.


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