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 Post subject: Surface following foilboard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:26 pm 
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Go here right now:
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index. ... &p=4514432
Bruce from teknologika.com/mothblog/ has some photo's of a surface folling foilboard! Design by Dave Lister who is one of the top Moth foil people. Look out, development is happening!


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 Post subject: Re: Surface following foilboard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:32 pm 
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Location: Chile/Brasil
Really interesting!!
funny how things are fusioning!
what i would love to see is a moth without a windsurfsail and outfitted with a wingcommander (www.kite-boat-systems.com) and a kite.
Even better make it a moth a Little bigger(with a cabbin)and créate a new offshorecategory like mini 6.5 transatantic with a kite.
hows that for less raw, less basic and extreme!
individual offshore transatlantic foilling!


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 Post subject: Re: Surface following foilboard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:02 pm 
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It's interesting, but I wonder if it would be better to just trim the stabilizer instead of the main foil.
This could allow max lift to start, with the stab and wing both lifting, and the stab tuned to counter main foil pitching moment over a range of speeds.
All sorts of controls can be rigged for foils but I think kiters should still "leverage" their greater leverage over the foil compared to other foil craft to maximize speed, fun, and reliability, while controlling cost and complexity.
Would the moths and foiling cats use so many strings and gears if they didn't have to to get it to work?


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 Post subject: Re: Surface following foilboard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:12 pm 
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BWD wrote:
It's interesting, but I wonder if it would be better to just trim the stabilizer instead of the main foil.
This could allow max lift to start, with the stab and wing both lifting, and the stab tuned to counter main foil pitching moment over a range of speeds.
All sorts of controls can be rigged for foils but I think kiters should still "leverage" their greater leverage over the foil compared to other foil craft to maximize speed, fun, and reliability, while controlling cost and complexity.
Would the moths and foiling cats use so many strings and gears if they didn't have to to get it to work?


+1,

I don't think the wands & winglets are the answer and will not beat the fixed foils on the racecourse. It's all just additional drag...
The beauty of kite foiling is the ability to trim the foil with just fore & aft body weight.

keep it simple!


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 Post subject: Re: Surface following foilboard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:15 pm 
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Location: Upper Padre . . . . --> Oleander
How will it work in chop?


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 Post subject: Re: Surface following foilboard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:23 pm 
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Yes, tpink I agree! K I S S
Some of us have thought about this and figure that you would gain nothing and in fact be worse off.
You would input control and any system would do?
Or worse the system would add unwanted control?
Excellent point, chop and waves!
For me at this point I just do not see it.
but......R H


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 Post subject: Re: Surface following foilboard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:58 pm 
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revhed wrote:
Yes, tpink I agree! K I S S
Some of us have thought about this and figure that you would gain nothing and in fact be worse off.
You would input control and any system would do?
Or worse the system would add unwanted control?
Excellent point, chop and waves!
For me at this point I just do not see it.
but......R H

Totally agree


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 Post subject: Re: Surface following foilboard
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:00 pm 
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The wand helps a lot in chop and waves, it's part of why a Moth work so well. A wand will be faster than you reaction time. I'm not certain that this is the absolute end point answer, but I imagine that the fastest foils will have some sort of surface following system. You can make a much more "aggressive", hydrodynamic foil section if you can control the lift with a flap. The current sections we're using are a compromise so we can take of at lowish speed. Being able to control the foil shape could be a big gain. The moth guys have been through all of this before. All their bits of string are for optimizing an optimization.
Look at it this way, the first foils we alumium and used snowboard boots. People wanted to make the lighter/faster/easier to use. We're already using a far more developed thing than we started on. Some kind of change is going to happen, surface following is a really good one to go after.


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 Post subject: Re: Surface following foilboard
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 4:39 am 
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That is a good point, and the practical reality for me is that the meter long mast is a huge limitation.
If the mast could be a foot (or more?) shorter, it would help with opening shallower areas and/or reducing damage from grounding.
I expect it would not help with handling chop, but most seem interested in foils in lighter wind, at least at this point, so perhaps it could work.


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 Post subject: Re: Surface following foilboard
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:21 am 
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Location: France
Consider this,
A moth NEEDS a system to fly is`s foil, period, as you do not control the wings with weight change.
A kiteboardhydrofoil does not need a system as you fly the foil with your weight change.
Sorry, but I have to think that the future lies more in a flexing auto stab wing T E or wing tips, almost like windsurf sail teck, and not in any floating system. :idea:
Just my thoughts, what about weeds or anything else getting in the system? How to transport?
What happens if it locks up when you are far out? kite lines around it?
Running aground? :?:
R H


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