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Liquid Force fun foil

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dwaynej
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Re: Liquid Force fun foil

Postby dwaynej » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:12 am

mdksniper wrote:
james wrote:just wanted to correct something that seems a little bit dubious from the review....

what is on the Green hat website..
"Liquid Force Foil Board Summary
The Liquid Force Foil Board is the first mass produced hydrofoil kiteboard on the market. We spent a few days with it on the water and tested it in various conditions."

as written by someone with a vested interest in selling them....


what it should read.

Liquid Force Foil Board Summary
The Liquid Force Foil Board is the first mass produced hydrofoil* by an existing kite brand who have taken an established product and design and taken a massive shortcut in terms of developing their own product from scratch. We spent a few days with it on the water and tested it in various conditions.

Which is more factually correct but doesn't have quite the same sizzle as the marketing BS

* its not, Mr C will be spinning and all the chaps in France must be wondering what they have been producing for the last few years

Man, the more I read this forum, the more it seems like kiters are really a bunch of whiny little bitches. Thankfully, I just like to go out and kite.
Everyone is an expert behind the keyboard.

james
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Re: Liquid Force fun foil

Postby james » Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:44 pm

Mdksniper? Is that some super rad gamer tag? Haha!

Anyway whining on the Internet that kitesurfers are whiny bitches? I guess you missed the irony in your own post..

Dwayne, it's not about being an expert behind a keyboard it's about pointing out what green hat is saying is utterly false and misleading.

If you want to believe it then great but more fool you.

dwaynej wrote:
mdksniper wrote:
james wrote:just wanted to correct something that seems a little bit dubious from the review....

what is on the Green hat website..
"Liquid Force Foil Board Summary
The Liquid Force Foil Board is the first mass produced hydrofoil kiteboard on the market. We spent a few days with it on the water and tested it in various conditions."

as written by someone with a vested interest in selling them....


what it should read.

Liquid Force Foil Board Summary
The Liquid Force Foil Board is the first mass produced hydrofoil* by an existing kite brand who have taken an established product and design and taken a massive shortcut in terms of developing their own product from scratch. We spent a few days with it on the water and tested it in various conditions.

Which is more factually correct but doesn't have quite the same sizzle as the marketing BS

* its not, Mr C will be spinning and all the chaps in France must be wondering what they have been producing for the last few years

Man, the more I read this forum, the more it seems like kiters are really a bunch of whiny little bitches. Thankfully, I just like to go out and kite.
Everyone is an expert behind the keyboard.

Konza
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Re: Liquid Force fun foil

Postby Konza » Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:39 pm

Why would you want anyone starting from scratch? No one does this in R&D. A huge part of R&D is to get an overview of what everybody else is doing and then figuring out how to improve a design unless you are doing basic research on something entirely new. LF did this in terms of cost reduction to produce an affordable foil for everyone. Don't know if they ended up with an existing design but I know that they tested quite a few wing sets. Also there's an image from what seems to be a COMSOL model in their "foil story". That wouldn't make sense when just copying a design since you definitly need some knowledge to handle this program.

But yeah I think many foil manufacturers are really pissed cause they're afraid that LF is going to take a part of their bacon. Easy to see from the comments here :wink:

james
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Re: Liquid Force fun foil

Postby james » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:01 pm

lol you think i am a foil brand 'worried' about LF?

windmaker
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Re: Liquid Force fun foil

Postby windmaker » Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:44 pm

james wrote:lol you think i am a foil brand 'worried' about LF?
It's becoming a habit on this forum. Whenever you disagree or think differently your either a competitor or plain jealous :D .

Konza
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Re: Liquid Force fun foil

Postby Konza » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:00 pm

james wrote:lol you think i am a foil brand 'worried' about LF?
No worries that last sentence wasn't aimed at you. :wink:

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DrLightWind
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Re: Liquid Force fun foil

Postby DrLightWind » Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:17 pm

Konza wrote:Why would you want anyone starting from scratch? No one does this in R&D. A huge part of R&D is to get an overview of what everybody else is doing and then figuring out how to improve a design unless you are doing basic research on something entirely new. LF did this in terms of cost reduction to produce an affordable foil for everyone.
They managed to kick the as* of the legendary "C" by lowering their expenses :smash:
that's the bottom line. :thumb:

DrLW

revhed
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Re: Liquid Force fun foil

Postby revhed » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:24 pm

Konza wrote: But yeah I think many foil manufacturers are really pissed cause they're afraid that LF is going to take a part of their bacon. Easy to see from the comments here :wink:
I would say just the opposite!
I see a guy getting one for the price and letting his friends try it and all of them wanting a truly performance KBHF that will not be outgrown so fast.
But at least the initial experience will be had and that should be good for the market future in terms of R+D cash and better prices due to more demand.
R H

dwaynej
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Re: Liquid Force fun foil

Postby dwaynej » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:55 pm

james wrote: ...pointing out what green hat is saying is utterly false and misleading.
Pretty much the whole industry is doing limited production runs of CF components and build to order which adds many weeks to orders. LF are producing foils and boards as fast as they can sell them and once initial demand settles down, we will see numerous retailers have them in stock/able to touch/ready to sell.

I understand Slingshot will release a foil in early 2015 partnered with MHL?
Last edited by dwaynej on Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dwaynej
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Re: Liquid Force fun foil

Postby dwaynej » Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:00 pm

Konza wrote:But yeah I think many foil manufacturers are really pissed cause they're afraid that LF is going to take a part of their bacon. Easy to see from the comments here :wink:
For 2x the price of a LF foil, you can purchase a high end carbon fiber foil and board... IMO, I don't see this as a huge delta and will only help the high end KBHF market as more people enter then move up.

There are three markets impacted by KBHF -
- The unidirectional race board market.
- The high end twin tip market.
- The big light wind LEI kite market.

With the number of KBHF's now at my local beach, no question 2014/2015 is the breakout year for KBHF.


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