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Hydrofoiling toe-side

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mig27
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Hydrofoiling toe-side

Postby mig27 » Mon May 30, 2016 10:05 am

I am still in the learning process.
After 20 hours on the board (over 11 sessions), I finally can ride for long stretches without falling,
I can handle strong pull of the kite, and 50% of my tacks go well, although I still hit the surface of the water.
I still progress each session, hopefully if the weather-gods are with me the 12th session will be tomorrow 8)

The only thing, which goes wrong all the time, is when I try to turn to toe-side.
I rarely touch a twin-tip's, ride skim-boards and wave-boards strapless most of the time.
And toe-side has never been any issue for me.
But then came the hydrofoil :nono:

I have seen this video, but cannot get out of it why he succeeds (1:52sec)

phpBB [video]


Does anyone has some good tips?
I ride strapless (yes, I am a foolish beginner :roll: ) by the way

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Hydrofoiling toe-side

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon May 30, 2016 10:36 am

When you say "try to turn to toeside", do you mean switch your feet from heel to toeside (or reverse), or do you mean turn the hydrofoil around and ride toeside ?

Two completely different things....

Learning to ride toeside, you simply carve around 180 degree, and ride the other way toeside !

Sounds easy, it is not - till you have learned - then it is easy :naughty:

It takes time and practice, no substitute for that, and your waveboard experience is to no help here, stop riding the waveboard and only practice hydrofoil for a while.

Important not to be too powered, as you will ride halfwind on the new tack and can not keep the speed down, thus accelerating to crazy speeds and a huge crash, if too big a kite :o

Apart from that, practice carving and after a successfull carve ride toeside as long as you can, remember to steer using yaw and not the edges (opposite of a waveboard), and keep the kite high so you wont accerelate too much :D

Practice practice practice, thats all there is to it - as long as you dont use too big a kite.

I had a great session (with a shaky linecam) some weeks ago, is it the toeside riding like this between carves you find difficult, or ?



And a year ago practising (and not always succeding): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsXeMck7V4g

8) PF

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Re: Hydrofoiling toe-side

Postby juandesooka » Mon May 30, 2016 3:35 pm

For me it came easy to ride toeside. So much so that I didn't invest the time to get comfort right foot forward and still haven't. Oops.

What happens when you try?

One thing someone posted recently. Using a fixed hook was a challenge vs sliding hook. The angle seems more severe foiling. I can only fly one handed even with slider. So maybe that might help? Get the pull more to the side will open up an easier angle?

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mig27
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Re: Hydrofoiling toe-side

Postby mig27 » Tue May 31, 2016 8:38 am

Peter_Frank wrote:When you say "try to turn to toeside", do you mean switch your feet from heel to toeside (or reverse), or do you mean turn the hydrofoil around and ride toeside ?

Two completely different things....

Learning to ride toeside, you simply carve around 180 degree, and ride the other way toeside !

Sounds easy, it is not - till you have learned - then it is easy :naughty:


Thanks again for your help Peter_Frank :thumb:

I should have been more specific: try to turn to toe-side.
Switching is something I want to practice as soon as the turn to toe-side works for me.

What happens, I think, is two things:

1. When passing the 90 degrees of the 180 turn, you will reach a "tipping-point", where your CoG needs to switch to the other side to find balance again. On that point I loose all control -> face-plant!

2. When going downwind, I accelerate. But the lift seems to get less, so I hit the water gently. But most of the times, the chop is not so gently -> face-plant! I guess this is because of the shifting of the tow-point? So the lift does not actually get less, but the pitch becomes a bit more negative? In other words, I do not compensate the shift of balance. As a result the pitch angle of my wings becomes less?

Which of those two comes first, I have not figured out yet :lol:

Your videos are a great help.
Hopefully if the wind-gods are nice I will try it today.
We had a lot of thunderstorms last night, with gale force wind. So I have to go to the beach lake we have here (yes, deep enough)
But the wind direction is critical at the moment.

juandesooka wrote:For me it came easy to ride toeside. So much so that I didn't invest the time to get comfort right foot forward and still haven't. Oops.

What happens when you try?

One thing someone posted recently. Using a fixed hook was a challenge vs sliding hook. The angle seems more severe foiling. I can only fly one handed even with slider. So maybe that might help? Get the pull more to the side will open up an easier angle?


I wish it came so naturally to me too :wink:
It is a balance thing I guess, and as PF says practice, practice, practice...

I want to try the sliding hook.
Ride Engine is booming here, and DaKine seems to have such a harness too.
Maybe I will buy a sliding hook for my current waist harness.

But first I will keep the fixed hook.
With waveriding, TT and skim I have no issues with riding toe-side.
That said, the upwind angles are quite modest compared with HF

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Re: Hydrofoiling toe-side

Postby juandesooka » Tue May 31, 2016 6:39 pm

sliding hook....it may help, as the angle of the kite's pull seems worse on foil when toeside. Others have commented on problems with fixed hooks in this situation. I have a dynabar slider, but also use a DIY rope / steel o ring set up. You can easily experiment with this yourself without spending a lot of $.

Riding toeside with foil, one of the challenges I've noticed is that the kite is about 2/3rds the power, losing power due to inefficiencies in stance. As well, it is hard to work the kite with only 1 arm. So if underpowered, I find sometimes the toeside tack is partially with board on the water or up on the foil with touch downs as the kite loses power. Maybe you might try riding purposely with the foil in the water, without power in the kite, to get a feel for the stance and flying kite from it?

Similarly, maybe it helps to practice riding close to straight downwind, and try little S turns, heelside to toeside, to get a feel for the motion of turning into it. Then as you get a feel for it, can deepen the turn to gain more and more angle, working toward the 180 degree carve. You said you have challenges riding downwind, I'd bet if you master that, the toeside ride will come easily. (in particular how to keep enough power in the kite to stay on the foil but not so much to get toppled)

No idea if that will help, I'm no foil expert or instructor....just thinking about ways you might be able to work your way into it.

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Re: Hydrofoiling toe-side

Postby Starsky » Tue May 31, 2016 10:52 pm

Initially the only way I could get a handle on toe side foiling was to go really deep off the wind. It all gets quiet, there is very little pull from the kite and your sort of sheeting on and off just to keep it in place. The foil is really upright, which feels sketch at first, but once you get used to it, its all good. Board attitude and ride height are tricky at first when passing over and running down the front of swell. At that angle you don't need a slider. Once you get a little more comfortable and begin to point and load the lines more, the slider is really nice.

Practice makes it all manageable. Toe side deep off the wind or cross swell riding is one of my new favorite things.

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Re: Hydrofoiling toe-side

Postby lieutenantglorp » Tue May 31, 2016 11:12 pm

If you want to stay on foil from heelside to toeside you should downloop the kite. It helps a lot, since the kite will pull you around and be in the right position to keep you going toeside.

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Re: Hydrofoiling toe-side

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:35 am

lieutenantglorp wrote:If you want to stay on foil from heelside to toeside you should downloop the kite. It helps a lot, since the kite will pull you around and be in the right position to keep you going toeside.


Maybe you are right, but not sure, could be individual and depending on level ?

If it is not windy, I find downlooping way more difficult and risky and you need "perfect" timing - whereas the normal carve turning the kite up, leaves you with more options and less risk of downwing the kite :roll:
Eventhough when you get it right, you can downloop and carve even better in light wind as gravity helps the kitespeed so it sits perfectly on the way out, no doubt :D

When you downloop carve, there are two things that can easily go wrong:

If you downloop too early (like in "following the kite"), before starting the turn, the kite will loop down, and then pull like crazy while you try to follow "around" on your hydrofoilj - meaning you will typically make too big a curve.
What happens now is, you have ridden a bit too far downwind, and the kite has pulled all over to the new side very low and STOPS, in as completely if you havent got line tension - so it will often stall very low over the water - and no need to say what happens next....
Very typical scenario when out in marginal winds and you get the timing off, meaning try to follow the kite.

If you start carving before the downloop, the lines will be more slack when you pull around for the loop and it might turn too slow and hit the water.

When you get everything right and spot on timing, it works awesome though - but timing is IMO extremely critical compared to the normal turn where you have less risks involved, and you can also turn back during the turn (like in waveriding), which is not possible when downlooping - here you are committed to go all the way.

So as said - it could be extremely individual, but I find the upstroke carve "safer" and leaving you with more options.

Thus if still learning toeside, I am not sure you are better off trying to ride toeside out of the carve, while also fighting/learning the timing with a downloop ?

Some find downlooping easier maybe, others the "normal" turn easier - when a bit more wind :wink:

8) PF

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mig27
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Re: Hydrofoiling toe-side

Postby mig27 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:29 am

Peter_Frank wrote:....If it is not windy, I find downlooping way more difficult and risky and you need "perfect" timing - whereas the normal carve turning the kite up, leaves you with more options and less risk of downwing the kite :roll:


Especially with a foil-kite I have problems with that, not with my wave LEI's.

Thanks all for the feedback!
I can used that!

"Unfortunately" we have a lot of wind at this moment, which "forces" me to use my waveboard in the waves now 8) :lol:
I rather go foiling (stoked!), but there is no flat + empty spot available.

Hopefully this weekend I can make another go, and try your comments in practice!

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Re: Hydrofoiling toe-side

Postby Don Lester » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:05 pm

Two things come to mind when I was learning to ride toe-side.

1) Positioning your new rear foot. To gain control you want your rear foot a little forward so as not to foil too quickly and you want that foot on the windward rail so you can more easily force the board up-wind to slow it down and feel more in control.

2) Leaning hard against the kite, on toe-side, really helps control the power of the kite and imparts more confidence for you to " go for it ".

Also, I found it a little easier to have a more normal size kite, not to small. You want some power when the kite is at 12:00.

In the beginning you're not downlooping.


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