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 Post subject: Re: less Carafino more hydrofoil
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 2:07 pm 
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Thanks guys,
Mr C has a lot on his plate at the moment but he has made his own bed by selling a product that had not even been born. I wish him all the best with his project....

As for the infusion well I've made 5 rear wing halves. 2 with a gel coat as I want to include graphics and 3 straight infusion. the last 2 I had perfect success with 1 gel coat spray ed into the mould graphic applied, followed by the stack and straight infusion. one other reason for the gel coat use was for uv protection, As epoxy has limited uv protection. The gel coat used is an epoxy compatible polyester and work ed well. I will 2k lacquer the the straight infusion s.
I'll post some more pics later.

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: less Carafino more hydrofoil
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 3:29 pm 
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Location: Chile/Brasil
what are de pros and cons of using infusion over wet layup vacum bagged?


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 Post subject: Re: less Carafino more hydrofoil
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 3:50 pm 
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windfreak74 wrote:
what are de pros and cons of using infusion over wet layup vacum bagged?


This car was completely done by me and my teammates in the past when we ere in engineering school. Completely done with infusion, the new teams now use prepreg with carbon molds and an autoclave since they have a sponsor to give them acces to the autoclave..
http://www.etsmtl.ca/getattachment/b8a3 ... 10-%281%29

The best advantage if you want my opinion is that it also let you make your layup all with dry cloth and place everything well and form your cloth to your mold with vaccuum before getting dirty (infusion is very clean, no drip anywhere), if you already have a pump,
I'd say you should start doing some tests since you only need some flow media and some tubing and clamps to get started (since you already have a setup for bagging wet layup). I guess you use peel ply as well? However, you need to calculate well the quantity of resin.

you need a resin with low viscosity also so it wet all the cloth well. repairing a missed part is doable with a partial bagging and a second infusion but the look is affected a lot most of the time.

I never bagged wet layup parts since we only did the molds with wet layup. But just using wet layup is a hell of a dirty job, resin is dripping everywhere and i hate that :lol:

Note that i'm an electronic guy not the best composite guy but i understand a lot since i participated in the fabrication of these cars.


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 Post subject: Re: less Carafino more hydrofoil
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 7:57 pm 
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windfreak74 wrote:
what are de pros and cons of using infusion over wet layup vacum bagged?

Thats right Rotule, nice set of wheels by the way.

Infusion also reduces the possibility of air voids and an accurate carbon resin ratio, as a rule of thumb 50/50 - 60/40 carbon/resin. it does take practise for sure, right flow rate and path of resin flow. normally recomend the shortest route.
in the above pic i went the longest path for the resin flow as it was a small part. on the last two i went the shortest route and it was fine.
i did have issues with styrene still present in the mould. as i was putting it straight in the oven at 50c the styrene was making the epoxy stick slightly to the mould. i found this out through the supplier and recomended curing at 20c 24hours then post curing once out of the mould. it worked after first time after 2 previous attempts. it was nothing major but i wanted it perfect.
see att pic
Attachment:
IMAG0999.jpg
IMAG0999.jpg [ 1 MIB | Viewed 324 times ]

Attachment:
IMAG0997.jpg
IMAG0997.jpg [ 774.09 KIB | Viewed 324 times ]


All fun and games but hopefully worth it in the end :D :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: less Carafino more hydrofoil
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:15 pm 
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Edge19 wrote:
Thats right Rotule, nice set of wheels by the way.


thanks :) these wer custom designed and machined by students :)

After the infustion, we used blankets over the molds and put some heat guns shooting hot aire to the mold (under the blanket) never leave unwatched because it could catch fire but it worked great!

These a nice results that you got :)


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 Post subject: Re: less Carafino more hydrofoil
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:05 pm 
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ptraykovski wrote:
How do you guys think a north nugget (2012 so 21" wide by 5'0" by 2.5 thick with flat rocker and round template) would work for mounting a foil.

Any tips for reinforcing the mounting holes for a plate. I was thinking of drilling, inserting some fiberglass or PVC tubes and then glassing a layer of carbon top and bottom. I wasn't going to bother putting any high density foam in the bottom. think it is required?

I think the Nugget has some concave in the tail? If so it's hard to mount a plate style foil to it as the base it's flat. You want all the surface area of the foil plate to contact the board.


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 Post subject: Re: less Carafino more hydrofoil
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 9:28 pm 
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ozchrisb wrote:
ptraykovski wrote:
How do you guys think a north nugget (2012 so 21" wide by 5'0" by 2.5 thick with flat rocker and round template) would work for mounting a foil.

Any tips for reinforcing the mounting holes for a plate. I was thinking of drilling, inserting some fiberglass or PVC tubes and then glassing a layer of carbon top and bottom. I wasn't going to bother putting any high density foam in the bottom. think it is required?

I think the Nugget has some concave in the tail? If so it's hard to mount a plate style foil to it as the base it's flat. You want all the surface area of the foil plate to contact the board.


Iseen a lot of picture of nuggets with foils installed on, just search the net a little bit and you will find


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 Post subject: Re: less Carafino more hydrofoil
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:01 pm 
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Location: Chile/Brasil
Edge19,
Wow the finish of infusion is top notch!!
keep pics coming!!
have you glued the top and bottom?
Do you use a filler inside the wing or a solid laminate?
Pedro


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 Post subject: Re: less Carafino more hydrofoil
PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:31 pm 
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Yes, no problem using a Nugget, and it has good proportions IMO.

Strapless, you most likely want a smaller board, with less volume (I do), but strapped, a bigger board is fine especially for initial hydrofoiling :thumb:

You could make an "adapter" so the flat plate will have a slight curve, and then you have solved the problem if it has a significant amount of curve/rocker :naughty:

8) PF


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 Post subject: Re: less Carafino more hydrofoil
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 1:13 am 
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revhed wrote:
Note the 2 cara posts, one nice small letters, although he was just adding a positive remark as he himself has shown black matt spray paint used.
Some hours later.... THE NEXT, CAPS ANGRY. And so far out of line!!
I wonder what a shrink would have to say if he or she studied all his posts?
And for the first time he claims 400 orders, I hope this works out for those who sent hard earned cash? :?:

Sorry wind freak, if you do not like what a tv channel is broadcasting what do you do? Change the channel, it is your choice!
Do not want to read about the cara soap opera simply do not read that post!
Note how he attacked you when you in a way you were tring to stop all the negitive talk about him.
This is very important to all the guys who have sent money so bear with it. I more than most hope it will be over soon!
Sorry to invade your post, I hope you will understand why.

I was once ripped off for 3,000 usd, sure wish someone would have alerted me before, consider that maybe guys here are just doing that! Nothing to do with this!

EDGE
GREAT JOB!
Please post more photos and how to info.
We always vac sack but are considering infusion and seeing your work adds inspiration.

R H


HI RV:

Dropped in on the forum this morning for my cup arm chair entertainment.

I was once doing the same thing your doing now with fiddling around with molds and wings. It was about 15 years ago. Keep up the good work. Thanks for watching out for other people also with regard to getting warned and ripped off.

Carafino does not rip anybody off. If we were ripping off people we would not spend our time on this forum. We would have just shut down the whole thing already. Were just late because shit happens and we have to deal with it.

My family reads your post and all the other negative ones, they say to me why do I continue to do this when people out there are writing such disrespectful comments. My mother reads your posts and others and she says to me, Son, you created this sport and brought it so far, why? for people to disrespect you, beat you up on the internet.

She is right, all the hard work is for nothing. As I mentioned in my video, once we finish our stock, we will no longer make foils. Much of that is because of guys like you and your comments. The money part is not important, the fact that everything I have done, means nothing.

So good luck with your projects and the molds. What you need to be careful of when molding the way you do is that you are not ensuring a 100% bond in the process because you do not have enough compression on the mold after you lay it up. You should also be heating that mold to ensure the cure while the mold is closed with the material inside. Hand layup lamination with a couple of clamps looks nice but it will crack and break in short time due to stress loads. You need to create that wing in prepreg composite material.


Regard, Carafino


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