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 Post subject: Re: Lost my front wing - how to reinstall
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 12:37 pm 
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Location: Denmark
This is the general problem with all hydrofoils...

Even if it was produced well and in one single mould (in one piece), a grounding CAN break the foil, especially with higher AR wings of course, and particulary if tilted, the force/torque can be extreme.

Then one can discuss whether we want to have "weak" points, or better to have it break totally "somewhere not very defined".

I dont know the best solution and very individual, but of course it is a common issue, on ALL hydrofoils, and the more performing the worse it generally is :naughty:

8) PF


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 Post subject: Re: Lost my front wing - how to reinstall
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:49 pm 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
...

Then one can discuss whether we want to have "weak" points, or better to have it break totally "somewhere not very defined".

I dont know the best solution and very individual, but of course it is a common issue, on ALL hydrofoils, and the more performing the worse it generally is :naughty:

8) PF


A fusible weak-link that can handle the stress for the intended item , but break
if the item is Over-stressed ; is sometimes a Good thing. The Atos Rigid-wing
uses a fuse-pin in it's down-tubes so the fuse-pin breaks , instead of the expensive
part it went in. It saved a Many a broken arm of a pilot in a poor landing, but can
easily handle the air-loads it was designed for !!

Bille


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 Post subject: Re: Lost my front wing - how to reinstall
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 10:17 am 
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HI GUYS:

I drop in on the chat to put in my knowledge on the inserts coming out/loss of front wing. A lot of these start companies are experiencing the same issues Carafino had back when we began.

Sorry to hear you lost your front wing.

With regard to the stripped insert. First you have to determine what is the material used for the insert. Aluminum or Stainless. Stainless is more favorable as the inserts never/rarely strip. If the insert is stainless, just thread the insert larger to the next size up, if is it still too small, go another size up bigger. Make sure you use a stainless steel bolt also for the size you tap it out to. You may have to make one if you cannot find it. Let me know, we have many sizes in stock for the tapered head.

Try to at least get a discount on the next wing you buy from that supplier. When it arrives, you may have to drill out out either all the hole fittings in the wing so that you can fit your new bolt into the hole size. Or just one hole fitting depending on damage. However, if the wing came off all holes ae damaged. That should fix the stripped insert issue by just threading out the hole to a bigger size. Aluminum is not as strong and should never be used. The do not like salt water and electrolisis begins to weld the aluminum with the stainless bolt.

With regard to the insert in the fuselage failing. This really sucks. because it indicates the foil is not compressed strong enough in the mold under manufacturing methods. Inserts should never break out.

If the insert has failed, you need to get another insert from the supplier of your foil. Be sure to get the screws. We warranty our foil from this as we know ppl hit the bottom, the foil should be designed to withstand a soft to medium impact. What helps is if you come out of the straps instead of stay on the board driving the foil into the bottom or other object.

Nonetheless, Your only solution if you cannot get a discount on a replacement and have no warranty is to obtain the new insert, clean out the damage area of the T bar with MEK or other solvent. laminate the insert back into place. Normally the insert should have a groove in it so the material can adhere and hold the insert into place under stress from riding.

Once you put the groove in with a dremil tool, laminate it back into place best you can. Do not wet laminate it. Use the two part white dry rock hard epoxy you can purchase at most hardware stores.

The most important part is that the wing is straight when it drys.

However, this will not ensure the wing to last a long time. Jumping or hitting the bottom again will dislodge the wing most likely.

Hope that helps.

C A R A F I N O


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 Post subject: Re: Lost my front wing - how to reinstall
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:15 am 
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C A R A F I N O 2014 wrote:
HI GUYS:

I drop in on the chat to put in my knowledge on the inserts coming out/loss of front wing. A lot of these start companies are experiencing the same issues Carafino had back when we began.

Sorry to hear you lost your front wing.

With regard to the stripped insert. First you have to determine what is the material used for the insert. Aluminum or Stainless. Stainless is more favorable as the inserts never/rarely strip. If the insert is stainless, just thread the insert larger to the next size up, if is it still too small, go another size up bigger. Make sure you use a stainless steel bolt also for the size you tap it out to. You may have to make one if you cannot find it. Let me know, we have many sizes in stock for the tapered head.

Try to at least get a discount on the next wing you buy from that supplier. When it arrives, you may have to drill out out either all the hole fittings in the wing so that you can fit your new bolt into the hole size. Or just one hole fitting depending on damage. However, if the wing came off all holes ae damaged. That should fix the stripped insert issue by just threading out the hole to a bigger size. Aluminum is not as strong and should never be used. The do not like salt water and electrolisis begins to weld the aluminum with the stainless bolt.

With regard to the insert in the fuselage failing. This really sucks. because it indicates the foil is not compressed strong enough in the mold under manufacturing methods. Inserts should never break out.

If the insert has failed, you need to get another insert from the supplier of your foil. Be sure to get the screws. We warranty our foil from this as we know ppl hit the bottom, the foil should be designed to withstand a soft to medium impact. What helps is if you come out of the straps instead of stay on the board driving the foil into the bottom or other object.

Nonetheless, Your only solution if you cannot get a discount on a replacement and have no warranty is to obtain the new insert, clean out the damage area of the T bar with MEK or other solvent. laminate the insert back into place. Normally the insert should have a groove in it so the material can adhere and hold the insert into place under stress from riding.

Once you put the groove in with a dremil tool, laminate it back into place best you can. Do not wet laminate it. Use the two part white dry rock hard epoxy you can purchase at most hardware stores.

The most important part is that the wing is straight when it drys.

However, this will not ensure the wing to last a long time. Jumping or hitting the bottom again will dislodge the wing most likely.

Hope that helps.

C A R A F I N O


Great post Mango :)

Good job on being super helpful :)


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 Post subject: Re: Lost my front wing - how to reinstall
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 12:41 pm 
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Location: Miami, FL
I used to own a hydrofoil trimaran with three 8 foot alumimum foils the foils were held in place with delrin pins and designed to break away backwards if the impacted a submerged object so that they would minimize damage to the boat and the foils. The front pin would break away on impact and the back pin retained the wing. Delrin is very strong but designed to shear so I'm sure that it could be used on the connections at the mast or at the board.


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 Post subject: Re: Lost my front wing - how to reinstall
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 4:08 pm 
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Location: Florida--JACKSONVILLE
so if the breakaway feature was used and it worked, would the foil (or piece of) float?


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 Post subject: Re: Lost my front wing - how to reinstall
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:22 pm 
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Arcsrule wrote:
so if the breakaway feature was used and it worked, would the foil (or piece of) float?

Carbon fiber and metal fins will sink to the bottom. Even some wooden one will sink, depending on the type of wood used.


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 Post subject: Re: Lost my front wing - how to reinstall
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Location: rhode island
Arcsrule wrote:
so if the breakaway feature was used and it worked, would the foil (or piece of) float?



not likely.
very few of the foil designs mentioned so far have buoyant parts.

but Airsurfer has alluded to the next logical step.

any design with 'break-away' feature should also incorporate a mechanism to retain the parts you are trying to protect.

so mechanical fuse, frangible link, shear pin, spring latch, etc is used to allow failure of cheap components before catastrophic stress levels are reached in the valuable parts.
hinges, elastic fasteners, safety leashes, etc would keep the good stuff close at hand 'post impact'

sounds like the beginning of a new support industry..... patent pending anyone?

-bill


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 Post subject: Re: Lost my front wing - how to reinstall
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 8:50 pm 
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The density of carbon fiber is not too far off that of the water, simply by putting light weight foam in the center should be able to make it float.


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 Post subject: Re: Lost my front wing - how to reinstall
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:26 pm 
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Hope your repair goes well.

Recently got the Taaroa Sword, was way over budget for me but had to have it.

I can't afford to loose a wing, so I'm making molds of the original, and will learn with my copies.
( 8 years kitesurfing, 0 with kite hydrofoil )

The copies are strictly for me alone, no one else will ever touch one.

Think this is OK? Sort of like making copies of DVD for personal backup use only?


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