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Jibe practising, difficult !

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Hawaiis
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Re: Jibe practising, difficult !

Postby Hawaiis » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:19 pm

Air Gybe like a surfboard with Carafino

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Re: Jibe practising, difficult !

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:13 pm

Must say I disagree hugely, with those saying that a surfboard and hydrofoilboard jibe is about the same :roll:

A very important topic for those new to foilboards I think.

You will learn quite fast to ride straight, even on high AR fast foils.

But when you can ride your first a bit longer tacks straight without falling, and you try to jibe - it goes horribly wrong the first many many times (for me, and I dont think that is much different for others).

You will fall "out" of the turn often, and when you try to "surf" around, leaning on the inside rail and into the turn, you will fall "in" and down instead.
Because the turn is carried out by a horizontal yaw movement instead - so very very opposite and different from a surfboard.

On a surfboard you can easily recover every fall by simple putting more or less weight on the rail.
This is natural, because if you lean forward (about to fall inside f.ex), the weight on the rail will automatically recover you from falling - and the same goes if you put weight on your heels.
So a simple autorecovery that we all know from surfing and deep snow boarding and windsurfing.

This does not work at all on a hydrofoil whatsoever - here you have to learn a whole new set of very different recovery actions, by controlling the board by a yaw action.

This comes in time, and also used when going straight and in waves - so you can suddenly ride relaxed and counteract also when you loop the kite both ways around.



Very very different from a surfboard !


Then we have the wind, which the board overtakes very very often - this is NOT the case when jibing a surfboard, where you always have tight lines because of much higher windspeed, and more drag meaning less boardspeed.
So being able to handle the kite versus the arc when foiling around is VERY different from jibing a surfboard in this respect too :wink:


Even when not foiling, the handling (and jibes) are totally opposite, as you have a stable "anchor" in the water on the foil, that will lock the board so you have to balance on the board, whereas on a surfboard you are free to operate the board in any angle you want, instantly, for corrections, so much easier as YOU balances the board, and not the board that need you to balance.
About the same difference as a surfboard versus a huge finned raceboard, very different handling at high speeds when jibing - just even more extreme on a hydrofoil.


So I find the techniques to be extremely different, thus you (I) can not turn around as soon as I had learnt to go straight, because of this difference.
Still there now and then, but as your body learns to handle the foil, it comes and more natural now, but still two totally different ways IMO.

Odd that we have so different observations on this - but maybe because some of you have logged so many hours now, that you dont think of it (remember it) but just do it ?

8) PF

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Re: Jibe practising, difficult !

Postby Hawaiis » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:30 pm

Peter:
The problem might be the foil, what brand do you use?

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Re: Jibe practising, difficult !

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Jun 04, 2014 12:10 am

Sorry if I was not clear...

There is no problem (part of the learning), just wanted to share how a foil works and why I found it particulary difficult to turn at the first attempts, when riding non-hydrofoil "surf" directionals at the same time and since start of the 80s.
And share my discoveries in the middle of the journey :rollgrin:

You will most likely progress from session to session, slowly but clearly :D

On low AR foils/beginner foils, it seems to come much more easy and natural, according to everyone here who has started this way, before going to high AR race ones.

But as many starts on higher AR faster wings today, I would share this, so noone would be discouraged.

The thing is, that you can not really turn a foil by weight displacement edge to edge like you are used to.

If you could, the very principle of a foil, namely that it is self stable when going straight (not self correcting but rock solid stable) in the roll direction, would be lost.

This is the very reason why it is possible to ride a foil up high so easy, without balancing it at all, maybe small yaw corrections when experienced, but not really necessary when you start :thumb:

Just like with waveboards, CURVES and turns gives the most pleasure, loving it :naughty:

8) PF

PS: Have ridden two Zeeko wings, Spotz, and Takoon foils.
Different yes, but the jibe/turn principles are exactly the same :D

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Re: Jibe practising, difficult !

Postby gmb13 » Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:47 pm

Hawaiis wrote:Air Gybe like a surfboard with Carafino


Hi,

I hate to be pedantic, but that's not an air or foiling gybe "per say".

It's a nice carve transition. A Gybe involves changing the feet and riding away heel side. That is the crux point which makes an air gybe so damn hard to learn.

--
Gunnar

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Re: Jibe practising, difficult !

Postby skerrj » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:27 am

gmb13 wrote:
Hawaiis wrote:Air Gybe like a surfboard with Carafino


Hi,

I hate to be pedantic, but that's not an air or foiling gybe "per say".

It's a nice carve transition. A Gybe involves changing the feet and riding away heel side. That is the crux point which makes an air gybe so damn hard to learn.

--
Gunnar


1) the starboard side of his board was windward
2) his turn was off the wind (i.e. not into the wind)
3) the port side of his board was windward
4) "jibe-ho!", QED.

...even Conan couldn't get out of this... :D

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Re: Jibe practising, difficult !

Postby Hawaiis » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:29 am

A downwind turn is a Gybe, an upwind turn is called a Tack

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Re: Jibe practising, difficult !

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:50 am

Gunnar is absolutely right :naughty:

It is turns or transitions indeed, but not jibes, looking at how the term is used in the kitesurf/windsurf sports :wink:



From a discussion on the general forum:


A transition is a name covering the change of tack (port or starboard), so simply a name used to cover when you change direction, no matter if a jibe or a tack is carried out :thumb:

Transition means: Either a jibe or a tack.

A transition does not require that you change feet, it is simply that you change direction from one tack to another (relative to the wind).
Which also means your kite (or sail) will change "tack" (at least direction it pulls).


To the original poster and question:

In the kite and windsurfworld, the emphasis is in reality put on your foot switch though - so if anyone says "I am gonna practice jibing" (or tacking), we mean everything, both the board and kite/sail changing tack, but particulary the footswitching which is the really difficult part, no matter if done before/during/or after the turn.

So flying the kite from side to side, going downwind doing S-turns (as in DTL wave riding), without switching feet can actually also be seen as transitions (jibes), but not really referred to as such normally, eventhough it in pure technical "sailing" terms is successive jibes.

8) Conan

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Re: Jibe practising, difficult !

Postby Hawaiis » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:19 am

I have a lots of respect for you guys, if you insist that is not a Gybe, I will accept that.

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Re: Jibe practising, difficult !

Postby BraCuru » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:49 am

gmb13 wrote: Gybe involves changing the feet and riding away heel side. That is the crux point which makes an air gybe so damn hard to learn.

100% true.
I was doing the air carve downwind transitions in the first week of learning.
16 months foilboarding so far and cannot say it about normal air gybe.
This feet change kills me. HOW DO IT?! Where is the trick?
I tried couple of hundreds times and always end up with kissing the water.


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